Deutsch Drahthaar vs. German Wirehaired Pointer?

[AgilityPup]

What does anyone know about the two breeds? A girl I worked with all summer was all along going on about getting her Drahthaar puppy, and every time she'd mention it, I'd say "I've never heard of that breed." I eventually asked how she spelled it, planning on googling, and she gave the spelling "Drahtar" so I was never able to find it. I asked her again about it when she said the litter had been born, and she said "Oh, it's a German Wirehaired Pointer." I've heard of them, so I vaguely knew what she was talking about.

Now she's got the puppy home (I think) and she's already talking about dominating it, and how they're a breed that needs to be dominated and all of this, and about how great this puppy will be (they live within city limits, I think, so they don't really have space for much running, and the man of the relationship hunts, but not often enough to wear out a dog with hunting)... They're planning on using it for what it's bred to do - hunting help.

My problem is that she explained to me that a Drahthaar is what they're called after they've passed testing and all, but I read this:

Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950’s, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed.

History of the Deutsch Drahthaar:: Verein Deutsch Drahthaar

So now I'm really confused. I'd ask her, but by now I'm thinking she doesn't know diddly squat about what she's talking about, or I'm just not understanding her...

[Zoom]

I used to be friends with a lady who had one and I would watch the dog every so often. Brownie was an incredibly sweet girl with the world's softest mouth. She did like to run for hours at a time and I literally mean HOURS. Luckily we had a huge off-leash park she could do that in but still...her owner would just walk around with the rest of us, waiting for her dog to make her appearance and go tearing back off again.

They are two separate breeds to the best of my knowledge. And she doesn't need to "dominate" the dog, just give it plenty of exercise to wear her out!

[happyhound]

The DD (as well as the DK/Deutsch Kurzhaar/GSP) has a separate registry from the GWP (which is with AKC). They are required to go through significantly more testing (hunting/health) before they are allowed to breed.

DD and GWP are NOT used interchangeably and if she or her family isn't a serious hunter I highly doubt a DD breeder would sell them a pup. They don't sell them as pets.

[Romy]

From what I've been told about the breed, they don't have much of an off switch. Good luck to her having one in the city. That's why we went with a WHPG, and we live in the country on waterfront acreage. Even 5 acres of pasture running and swimming in the ocean/creek/up and down a 30 foot waterfall isn't enough to tire our dog out and he's supposed to be more laid back than both the german WP and DD.

There was a german wirehair in our obedience class, her owner said she pretty much never switched off. Ever. Most of her day was continuous running on their acreage. When they tried to bring her in or kennel her at night she would pace constantly until they finally tossed her in a crate.

Also, both work farther afield than griffons. If the DD is anything like a griffon, they will listen best when your hands are on them. Aversives do NOT work well with these breeds. They have an extraordinary pain tolerance, so any aversive that is going to actually stop a behavior is really going to injure the dog. They respond much better to +R, with very strict resource control.

Charlie I had to tie to my waist for a few weeks when we first got him, and again when he went through puberty. He had to work for each solitary little kibble he ate throughout the day. They do need you to be strict, but not "dominant" in the sense that you would scruff them or anything. Robert, who I love dearly and loves his dog, took a while to get out of that "dominance" mentality. I can say with absolute surety scruffing and other dominance techniques did absolutely NOTHING for Charlie. He just thought it was play. If you were to get physical with him to the point where he "submitted" he probably would have had broken bones at that point. And he still wouldn't have been bothered, this class of dogs has incredible pain tolerance.

ETA: It's possible if she got her dog from a BYB, it may be a german wirehaired pointer that they are calling a DD, as a selling gimmick. Since she gave you the wrong spelling, I kind of get the sense this may be the case.

[Psyfalcon]

Its really a breed split. In GSDs, they kept the same names, here they have different names. Here, its actually a split in the working lines as well (versatile vs pointer). My guess is that its a "working" pointer breeder going with the German name to indicate some working ability in the lines (which of course it may not have at all).

I haven't met many of the Wirehaired types (one was a Drahthaar who was a very nice dog) but it seems that all the German "Pointer" types are insane, and a huge pain in the butt. They are all serious dogs.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Psyfalcon

Its really a breed split. In GSDs, they kept the same names, here they have different names. Here, its actually a split in the working lines as well (versatile vs pointer). My guess is that its a "working" pointer breeder going with the German name to indicate some working ability in the lines (which of course it may not have at all).

I haven't met many of the Wirehaired types (one was a Drahthaar who was a very nice dog) but it seems that all the German "Pointer" types are insane, and a huge pain in the butt. They are all serious dogs.

I've heard griffon breeders say that Korthals (griff creator) was creating an artist with his griffs. They are versatile enough to be good family dogs, a dog that can track boar, point duck, point quail, and retrieve game all in the same day can curl up at your feet in front of the fireplace and play with your children.

In comparison, the Germans were aiming for a hunting machine with their dogs. And that's what they got. The griff breeders we talked to complained about the german griffon lines being bred away from the working standard to behave more like german wirehaired pointers. i.e. the dogs go too far afield, and don't have an off switch. It's that machine mentality. IMO it doesn't necessarily make a better hunting dog either.

Another thing they told me is that in Germany a lot of hunting was/is done from horseback. That is one major reason the German dogs are bred to work farther afield. Griffs were intended to work with a handler on foot, so close working.

ETA: I should add that our neighbor adopted a BYB german wirehaired pointer. He is a nightmare!! I am so glad he's not my dog.

[AgilityPup]

Bringing this back up, sorry folks. Same lady told me yesterday that there are WEIGHT restrictions to the dogs... Male has to be between 70 and 80 lbs, I think she said, and that "if a bitch were to go of and get bred down the road there would be repercussions...like they'd take away her breeding rites I think..."....

Say what?