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  #11  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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In GSD's, the biggest problem I see is poor temperament.

Health isn't the greatest, with alot of 'weird' things, allergies, immune system related problems, but I"d have to pick temperament above health issues
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:16 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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JRTs..

Stop the production of the crooked legged puds. If people want a short legged JRT the FCI JRT looks like a 'traditional' JRT just with slightly shorter legs.

Eye issues, luxating patellas etc need to go.

Breeders need to stop breeding for pet temperaments (so that they can get rid of the non conformation prospects) A drivey true JRT makes a great pet for the right people. Quit trying to change the breed to fit JQ Public.
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I think it is important to be able to see and love the breed as a whole and not just your individuals before breeding. I would not even consider getting into breeding unless I was wholly in love with the breed.
This.

In my opinion, someone falling in love with a breed should come before someone DECIDING they want to breed, then picking a breed...

Otherwise, it just seems like they are breeding for the purpose of breeding, not because they truly love that type of dog so much that they want to preserve/improve the breed.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:45 PM
Artfish Artfish is offline
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Thank you, Dekka. Sooo glad the JRT folks won the AKC battle. AKC can keep their Parsons!

I love the BC and JRT registries that denounce the conformation-minded registries. You folks rock. It is my wish that enough breeders band together to do this with the GSD.

Folks, if you have an uncommon breed, remember that popularity is your worst nightmare. Keep your gems hidden from all but those who are willing to learn about and fully understand your breed. One of the worst things that can happen for a breed- especially a cute one- is full AKC recognition.
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  #15  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
JRTs..
Breeders need to stop breeding for pet temperaments (so that they can get rid of the non conformation prospects) A drivey true JRT makes a great pet for the right people. Quit trying to change the breed to fit JQ Public.
Semi-hijack but relates to this ...

When I took my puppy coated AHT out, 3 different people (with hyper, monster kids) said "Oh, we have a Jack Russell Terrier *just* like that at home!". (They just gave me a blank stare when I said she wasn't a JRT). These were not what I would call 'terrier people' by any means and I really wonder what they had at home temperament-wise.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfish View Post
Thank you, Dekka. Sooo glad the JRT folks won the AKC battle. AKC can keep their Parsons!

I love the BC and JRT registries that denounce the conformation-minded registries. You folks rock. It is my wish that enough breeders band together to do this with the GSD.

Folks, if you have an uncommon breed, remember that popularity is your worst nightmare. Keep your gems hidden from all but those who are willing to learn about and fully understand your breed. One of the worst things that can happen for a breed- especially a cute one- is full AKC recognition.
The Aussie people had a HUGE fight when AKC recognition was brought to the table and held off until 1994, when the people who were more interested in showing than preserving the breed as it was meant to be *coughBayshorecough* picked up their skirts and flounced out of the ASCA and over to AKC and have been slowly ruining the breed ever since.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
The Aussie people had a HUGE fight when AKC recognition was brought to the table and held off until 1994, when the people who were more interested in showing than preserving the breed as it was meant to be *coughBayshorecough* picked up their skirts and flounced out of the ASCA and over to AKC and have been slowly ruining the breed ever since.
That's what happens. People want their breed to be AKC ... AKC doesn't steal their breed. But for many, AKC recognition does equal the ruination of the breed ... because some breeders lose sight of the big picture (the TOTAL dog) and do what it takes to win conformation shows and nothing else.

That is one reason I dual-registered my dogs with UKC ... they reward the "Total Dog" philosophy and it is usually the working conditioned dog that wins vs the 'fluff' dog.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2010, 05:16 PM
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Spiritwind Spiritwind is offline
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Originally Posted by colliewog View Post
For the Collies, in a Utopia:

- Eliminate CEA or at least greatly reduce it so that 85% of the breed is not affected by it. Granted, in most cases vision is not affected, but it CAN be eradicated by breeding genetic normals.
- Eliminate PRA (although not as common as CEA, it's always an issue when it occurs).
- Eliminate MDR1 mutant gene (drug sensitivity) or at least reduce frequency of occurrence.
- Eliminate temperament issues (timid and/or dog aggressive dogs ... neither is ever correct)
- Change the standard to allow prick or tipped ears (like the BC) as long as they match. I personally don't agree that a prick eared dog can't show true expression - ears of the right size for the dog's head can still give you the unique Collie expression.

Totally agree with most of this!

However (IMO) not sure I would agree with changing the standard to allow prick ears. The standard has called for semi erect from pretty much the very beginning. I do not agree that prick eared dogs can have the same expression, personally (again, just my opinion)... and I have had my fair share of prick eared dogs.... though in the last several years I have been lucky to get good ears with very little effort! Taping until 6-7-8 months or so and never having to do it again...and still have correctly tipping ears.


One other thing that I would add.... is for people to start realizing bloat is a problem in certain lines and they need to stop breeding dogs who have generation after generation after generation of bloat dogs behind them.... but instead they ignore it, or try to hide the fact that it's there! It really bothers me.

I've seen it first hand. I personally feel a large percentage of it, is caused by genetics. I have pedigrees of various dogs saved on my computer that I know for a fact, have multiple dogs in several generations that have bloated behind them.. and people still breed them... often back to other dogs with a pedigree full of bloat dogs, and they think nothing of this!!.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2010, 05:48 PM
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elegy elegy is offline
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the american pit bull terrier. i don't even know where to begin.

health issues are the easiest. hip problems cripple too many dogs. closely followed by cardiac problems. elbow dysplasia is certainly not uncommon, and neither are severe skin problems/allergies (especially in blue dogs but not by any means limited to them), and hypothyroidism. the breed is way the heck up there in cruciate tears, but i'm not sure where that plays into a breeding program.

but the biggest problem is temperament. followed closely by people breeding dogs who look absolutely nothing like american pit bull terriers.

i see so many pit bulls who are shy and excessively soft. i think part of it goes along with what dekka said about JRTs and breeding for a "pet" dog (and the AKC people and their "our amstaffs aren't dog aggressive" mindset), but i imagine that most of it just goes along with breeding whatever dogs have working reproductive parts. pit bulls are not supposed to be shy, not one little bit, and shy dogs can easily get into trouble. these are supposed to be bold, in your face working dogs. not wilting flowers who piddle themselves (hi mushroom).

and then there are the overdone, excessively large, excessively "bully" dogs who have completely lost sight of the small detail that pit bulls are supposed to be a medium-sized, moderate, athletic dog. ATHLETIC. not waddling. not 90 pounds with a giant head.

this breed is a freaking disaster and it breaks my heart because the well bred pit bull is a thing of absolute beauty. solid, athletic, bold, and smiling.
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Artfish Artfish is offline
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Quote:
Taping until 6-7-8 months or so and never having to do it again...and still have correctly tipping ears.
Honest question, and this is coming from a breed whose ears are also make-or-break for the image: if a dog's ears must be taped for it to stand erect, and the breed standard calls for naturally erect (not requiring cropping) ears, would it be a better practice to stop breeding dogs that consistently produce dogs with weak ears/large ears/etc? I know we're talking a silly cosmetic issue when we have much bigger fish to fry in collies and GSDs, but it does irk me that these genes for large and heavy ears get passed on. GSDs are not supposed to have satellite dishes for ears, they shouldn't require taping, and, unless the dog would make von Stephanitz stand up from the grave in jubilant applause, it probably should not be bred.

How are collie ears? Is taping just about mandatory to get the "collie look" or should the collie ears stand and tip without assistance? I've got my popcorn out and I am ready to learn.

Zoom, I checked out Bayshore... I'd gladly eat my words if they do indeed prove their stock's working abilities but I would be willing to bet that most of their herders wouldn't know what to do with sheep if they were surrounded by them. I hope I am wrong and I still feel bad that the Aussie and BC were AKC recognized. I am VERY worried about what they will do to the Hovawart, Catahoula, Mudi, and the Munsterlander..... oh no, please not the Munsterlander.......... sigh. I hope they don't go the way of the setters and spaniels already recognized.

I know it's not the AKC, it's the parent clubs that push for the AKC recognition and that value conformation above all else and even at the demise of all else.
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