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Old 01-04-2010, 09:32 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
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Location: Oklahoma
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Default Vaccines

I've been researching vaccines a bit in papillons in particular. Mia's breeder does limited vacs and as you probably know Hiro died from an adverse reaction to lepto. I found this and it was kind of interesting to me:

Papillons have been especially prone to reactions to vaccines, flea products,
wormers, boron, Dursban, etc. and should be treated as a sight hound.
They are believed to metabolize products differently than other breeds of
dogs, Rabies vaccines have been of particular concern causing shock and
facial swelling. USE NO LEPTO OR LYME VACCINE Hundreds of deaths have resulted every year due to improper or uninformed treatment of
Papillons. Shock with Renal and Liver Damage, respiratory distress,
swelling of the facial area and ears resulting in loss of circulation all are
observed frequently and may cause permanent damage or result in death.
Why would that be? What causes certain breeds to have more reactions to shots than others?

ETA: It's from here: Sulean Papillons & Wearable Art

Hank CA - (approx. 1 1/2 year old Spotty Dog)
Mia CGC - (6 1/2 year old Papillon)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (11 year old Papillon)
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:54 PM
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mmorlino mmorlino is offline
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Location: Marble Falls, TX
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Could it be simply the weight?

A great dane gets the same size vial as a pap does.

I have heard of many instances of reactions in mini dachshunds - never because of the breed, but because of the size.

I usually recommend to people that if lepto and corona are not an issue in your area, then don't vaccinate for them, as those two are usually the cause of reactions.

I also give my dogs and puppies a small dose of Children's Benadryl 30 minutes before a vaccine in order to avoid reactions. I've never had one in my dogs but have seen one in a friend's husky.
Yours in Christ,
Molly Morlino
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:57 PM
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Vaccines are neurotoxic to *people*. I imagine they are harmful to dogs, especially smaller dogs, for the same reasons.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:52 AM
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MandyPug MandyPug is offline
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Location: Southern Alberta
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I know Pugs are especially prone to vaccine reactions in general but especially lepto. I don't know why, but i know i don't risk it. I don't vaccinate and my vet looks the other way and is understanding even though he doesn't necessarily approve.

I think of it like this... I don't vaccinate myself every year or even every 3 years and I'm still fine. Not to mention the Rabies Challenge Fund proving that the Rabies jab lasts 7 years at least which means the others likely last for a while too.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:02 AM
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Zoom Zoom is offline
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It might be a drug sensitivity linked to a certain gene mutation, much like Aussies (and most of the "collie" breeds) with the MDR1 mutation. Dogs with this mutation have severe and oftentimes fatal reactions to ivermectin, so it's just easier and cheaper to issue a blanket statement saying "don't use ivermectin".
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:52 AM
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GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
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Not to mention the Rabies Challenge Fund proving that the Rabies jab lasts 7 years at least which means the others likely last for a while too.
Where did they prove that? All I've seen from them is wanting to raise the vaccination threshold. Never seen them actually prove anything.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- 'WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!!' " - Author Unknown
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:57 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Lepto is a nasty vaccines for any dog breed. We don't use lepto, lyme, or corona vaccines around here. Despite all the hype a neighboring vet clinic is trying to make over lepto to get more business, it;s just not necessary around here.

A lot of dogs have rabies vaccine reactions. Especially small breeds. For the reason we usually split vaccines in small breed dogs, if they are due for more than one in any given year.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:37 AM
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Romy Romy is offline
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Location: Olympia, WA
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Our vet doesn't give the lepto vaccine around here. She told me that the strains of lepto in our area and the strains that the vaccine protects against are totally different, so it wouldn't work anyway. My friend in the next county over's vet told her the same thing.

That's pretty interesting with the papillons. I've never heard of sighthounds being sensitive to specific vaccines. The size thing makes sense though, when you consider that you jab a 180 st. bernard with the same dose as a chi puppy.

Strider's trainer used a vet (from the same clinic we go to) who will dose vaccines by weight for smaller dogs. We never bothered because both of our guys were big by the time we started going there, but they are the only people she trusts to vaccinate her scotty.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:43 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I always heard that the dose should not be adjusted for the size of dog. I forget the reasoning behind it, but I think I'll look it up in the morning.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:13 AM
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MericoX MericoX is offline
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Schnauzers are the same, a lot have bad reactions to the Lepto and Lyme so I do not get it. I'm not sure if its the same as poodles, but they din't get it either.
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