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  #41  
Old 01-02-2010, 01:34 AM
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I'd third the largish, dark colored, prick eared dog. Since you're not interested in actually pursuing PP/Sch (I think that's what you said? Correct me if I'm wrong.) you'd probably do better with a generic dark, prick eared dog.

I think that it's very hard to get a correct working dog unless you've been in the breed/sport for a long time and have had success training dogs in it. Titled working dogs - not the kind you find on the farm or used by people for hunting. I'm sure those are also hard to come by, and probably hard to find if you don't know someone.

Correct, successful, working bred Dobermans are extremely hard to get a hold of. Breeders are rare in the western hemisphere, and you wouldn't be able to get a foot in the door in Europe.
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  #42  
Old 01-02-2010, 04:19 AM
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Siberian Husky or Alaskan Malamute would make a great visual.
But don't expect them to do anything, beside licking to them to death.
People always get scared when I walk my husky.
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  #43  
Old 01-02-2010, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JennSLK View Post
Because the one I personaly know, and hang out with, will, without a doupt protect you. Some of them have proven it, and some, judging by thier temperment will. Not all show dogs are sucks. The ones I personaly know, in my group of show friends actually have decent tempements. I never once said all show dobies, but the ones in my circle of friends will.

Jazz didnt have a proper temperment, but she would have and did protect me from harm. But there is a difference between a pet who would protect if needed, and one who could do Schuzhund (sp?) or IPO. I dont think the OP wants a sport dog, just a family pet.
Exactly what did Jazz do to protect you? What did the threat do in response? Again we get down to what the definition is. Bark/growl/show teeth, if a threat goes away, then that is protecting you. What the dog does beyond that is where the question marks lie. Perfect example, a white GSD that clearly did not have the temperament to be a protection dog, yet it's owner was convinced he'd protect, and finally got called out on it by our trainers. The dog would put up a good front, lunging, barking, growling, teeth snapping. As long as the decoy didn't come at the dog and put him in defense mode. Then he'd shut down. They told the guy they didn't want to invest any more time in the dog as he was a liablity because he was a fear biter and lacked what it took. The owner argued, one of the trainers finally said "I'm so confident that your dog will not do anything, I'll let you send him at me and I won't use any gear to protect myself". The owner sent the dog, the trainer rushed at it and yelled, and the dog kept his distance. The trainer then went to the owner and they wrestled around to see what would happen, the dog did nothing but stay 20' away and bark. Finally the dog saw another trainer, and since he was no threat, went after him instead until that trainer yelled and acted aggresive toward the dog. This is how MOST dogs will react. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is.

What you are not understanding is that a dog that will protect you, in the true definition (NOT bark and act scary, but willfully engage and fight a threat until the threat is neutralized) is way beyond what a Sch/IPO dog is trained to do. I'm not taking away from those sports, but to say a dog that does those sports will protect you is not accurate. Sure there are dogs who do those sports who could succeed in protecting you, they are the ones that would succeed in venues that are much more taxing on the dog than Sch. There is little to no defense put on a dog in Sch or IPO. It's all prey work which is fun for the dog. A real life situation is highly defensive and most dogs do not like that. Defense is where the dog tries to get the threat to go away, and if it doesn't that's where fight mode kicks in. Most dogs don't want the fight, and they will go into avoidance and back down. It's a natural response, live another day. Artfish hit the nail on the head with his post.

I know this has gone far off topic from what the OP's question was, but let's at least be clear on what a protection dog really is and make sure that is understood before we start making statements like the show dogs I know will protect you.
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  #44  
Old 01-02-2010, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
a good mal, dutch or heeler is A LOT of dog & you'll spend a lot of time teaching them when not to bite. you would do well to get on some PP boards & ask much more experienced & active individuals. then discard half of what they say and seek out the real gurus they will mention in the process.
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  #45  
Old 01-02-2010, 09:32 AM
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I am not particularly interested in doing sports. I have my border collie for that But yes, I am aiming more for a well-rounded dog I could trust around people/kids, but that also would be intimidating to intruders and could (hopefully) show some teeth if he/she felt there was a threat.

Bouvier?? I love them (but am not a grooming person, so they're out for me). It's a big wooley bear and has a pretty menacing bark. But they're good family dogs and for the most part, stable dogs.
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  #46  
Old 01-02-2010, 02:26 PM
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However, I am an anxious person. I am nervous of the dark (yes I know, pathetic, but I can't help it!) and don't feel comfortable being home alone very much.
This tells me that what you need to look for is not so much a breed as an individual dog. You need a calm dog, one that won't feel the need to take danger cues from you or feed off of your insecurities or fears. My best advice to you would be to NOT get a puppy, but to look in shelters for an adult dog that is calm and confident.
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  #47  
Old 01-02-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
This tells me that what you need to look for is not so much a breed as an individual dog. You need a calm dog, one that won't feel the need to take danger cues from you or feed off of your insecurities or fears. My best advice to you would be to NOT get a puppy, but to look in shelters for an adult dog that is calm and confident.

Yes, I never wanted a puppy Besides that very important point, I also just don't want to have to deal with house training. I will probably look at adult dogs from shelters, and breeders, if they are trying to rehome older dogs of theirs.
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  #48  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:40 PM
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Malis don't make for a great deterrent. They're small, they're light colored and they tend to not be growly/teeth baring.

Don't forget the sissy bark!
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  #49  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
A short fuse and reactivity is the result of poor breeding. Actually, the missing off switch is also the result of poor breeding, but has become so common people overlook it when choosing what to breed.

The short fuse and reactivity can be quite flashy in a sport dog, so I think that some people probably value the traits


Quote:
Nyx has that short fuse and reactivity. Her bloodline is known for it. There are people who actually like that and will continue to breed for dogs like her. Granted, when I'm able to channel her in the right direction, she's amazing and I can see what the attraction is, but it's really not correct.

My dog is similar. He spends so much time reacting that he doesn't bother to THINK. When he actually stops and uses his head, he's actually a rather sensible dog. But, the lightbulb over his head doesn't get switched on often in situations that are even remotely exciting to him. He's too busy going "AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" A physical correction can often bring him back to reality. He's just not a dog that I like to take out in public very often.


Quote:
It is very possible to find malis that don't have the short fuse and reactivity issues and that are environmentally stable. It's more difficult to find one with an off switch, but even that can be done.

I've seen some lovely ones that are just that from West Coast breeders that blend show/working lines.


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I don't suggest a mali if you're not experienced with high drive/high energy dogs and if you don't have a plan for lots of exercise and training.

Yes, this.
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  #50  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:55 PM
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Don't forget the sissy bark!
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