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  #21  
Old 12-06-2009, 03:06 PM
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dogsarebetter dogsarebetter is offline
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makes since!

Ruckus came from a BYB sorta. they USED to show and do health testing. many dogs were even in therapy work. Ruckus is a fruit. its not like i got him from a pet store.

Lynn actually came from the same person. you would had thought that I would had learned with Ruckus to not go back to them. but she is a family friend and her puppies are always so irresistible.
Lynn is pretty awesome. she barks alot yes, but she is nothing like my Ruckus. Lynn does not have an aggressive bone in her body. Ruckus will BITE, he has bitten
and of course everyone here knows about Ruckus issues. Lynn has very few issues compared to him.
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ACooper View Post
.........I did state, and still DO find it ODD that a Sheltie board (supposedly knowledgeable about their breed) would tell new members "that's just how they are" instead of "yep, they can be that way and here's some ideas and tools to work on it"
I'd put money down that the majority of the people on this sheltie board have never picked up a copy of Sheltie Talk, let alone read it through. If they DID they would probably be very, very surprised at the descriptions of temperament laid out in the book. Most of their dogs would be so far from it they wouldn't know exactly what to make of it.
Most of those members probably think there's nothing wrong with their dog, or they think it's "cute" or "funny."

The problem is, as Laurelin said, that a lot of show breeders out there are producing dogs that are so far from what the breed SHOULD be. Overly shy dogs, problem barkers, neurotic tendancies, little working ability, dogs that above all are NOT thinking dogs. Again, putting money on a majority of the people showing a sheltie never having picked up Sheltie Talk, and they'd be SHOCKED if they did. They would go "Oh, this isn't right at all! This is crazy! What are these people talking about?!"

But why should that be surprising, really? The show BC and the working BC are worlds apart. I personally would prefer it if there was no such thing as the "show" alternative. I do believe that form follows function but form changes in the show ring, and I hate it. A majority of sheltie breeders now are producing dogs that are heavily coated and that's about the end of what they look for. I watched the dog show on Thanksgiving Day and asked Auggie "Why do we watch these, Auggie? It just makes me mad." Watching the herding group and looking at movement on the dogs (of many breeds, mind you) that made it to the group ring is just ridiculous. I doubt if a lot of sheltie breeders have any idea about proper movement, let alone a concern for it. They might do agility with them, but even more rare is that they might take them to a herding trial or two, but the majority of these dogs have never seen sheep let alone have them essentially in their backyard. I don't think that every single sheltie breeder out there has to have their own sheep but I DO think they should have dogs that prove working ability on SHEEP since they are, after all, shetland SHEEPdogs.

Look, I know I'm not the normal sheltie owner, LOL. I was very blessed to find Auggie's breeder, somebody who believes in that old sheltie temperament and wants to keep it going, somebody who health tests, somebody who not only has sheep to work her dogs on but also plays agility with her dogs to give them another outlet - and somebody who also still strives to prove her dogs in the show ring. The problem is that the split between a working dog and a show dog is widening with shelties and ring trends are starting to take over the breed. I have also been very lucky in the last several years to love a breed that can do everything INCLUDING succeed in the show ring, but IMO that's going to be harder and harder to find in the future as the gap continues to widen. I'm not willing to give it up yet... I still want to believe that you can have the best of both worlds in one dog... but I have a feeling that's going to change in the future. =/


Anyway, I hope that makes sense. It's a bunch of politics and I hate dog politics. =P

ETA: I should also note that when I went looking for a breeder I knew more about what I DIDN'T want than what I did. I knew what to watch out for. I've learned a lot about the breed from her and from Auggie. There's still a lot to learn, too. Most people don't have that opportunity. It's no wonder the kinds of shelties that are being produced by a majority of breeders these days.
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:10 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Emma a sheltie mix and she does the spin spin spin thing...tho I hear that alot of herding breeds will do that.

I have wanted a sheltie since I could understand what one is...everything I have read my whole life has talked about how barky and insane they are. Nice to finally see another side of the coin.


that video was a trainers nightmare lol
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:38 AM
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I have 2 shelties. They do not act like this at all. They don't even bark when indoors. When they get excited outside and start barking excessively all I have to do is tell the "Enough" and they stop. They are social though and no bad behavior was encouraged.
I am in the process of trying to sell them...I WILL NOT be using this video as a selling point! LOL!
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2010, 01:24 PM
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Why are you wanting to sell your shelties, out of curiosity?

I think herding breeds in general are being done a giant disservice as of late and I honestly put a lot of the blame on agility and flyball. People are taking dogs that are absolutely insane and totally out of standard for temperament and making them into good flyball/agility dogs. They're still terrible pets and give off the wrong impression of the breed, but then you get everyone else going "oh, that's just how they're supposed to be, my dog doesn't have issues, he's just going to be a great agility dog!"

Aussies haven't been hit as hard, yet, by this, at least not to the point that there's a "sporter collie" version. But I'm meeting more and more Aussies that are just nothing but bouncing, barking nutcases. I'm getting asked more and more often if Sawyer is an old dog, because he behaves himself.
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2010, 01:56 PM
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Zoom I have to disagree. Many of the 'crazy' drivey agility dogs I know (terriers or herding dogs) are nice family pets. THey just get all crazy when they know they get to play. Actually some of the craziest loudest fastest and barely in control BC on course are those who chill the best in fabric crates. (and I am so jealous cause none of my dogs will stay in fabric crates lol) between runs.

Sport hasn't gone to a trial yet because I am sure it is beyond his ability to deal with. However he is a delightful family pet. In the wrong home I am sure he would be a major pain (we were his third home at 11 months.. and there were reasons)

I would chalk it up to more people getting them and not knowing how to deal with them in an urban environment.
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  #27  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:03 PM
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OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
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I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, I don't have time to read the whole thread. Those with just one or two shelties are usually better than when you have a small herd of them. The more shelties, the more tendency they have to act this way. They seem to feed off of each other.

This might be why tose of you who havce only ever owned one sheltie at a time are saying "this isn't normal, or mine never did that."
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, I don't have time to read the whole thread. Those with just one or two shelties are usually better than when you have a small herd of them. The more shelties, the more tendency they have to act this way. They seem to feed off of each other.

This might be why tose of you who havce only ever owned one sheltie at a time are saying "this isn't normal, or mine never did that."
I think most of us with shelties have owned multiples at a time. I know Beanie and I have both had three shelties and dogsarebetter obviously has 2. My breeder had 11 and a usual foster and I used to hang at her house a lot too to use her agility equipment, so I do know what they're like in large groups. Yeah they bark a lot, especially in big groups it can be hard to quiet them all down, but they weren't like that. I still wouldn't call it normal or correct but it's not incredibly unusual either.

Quote:
I think herding breeds in general are being done a giant disservice as of late and I honestly put a lot of the blame on agility and flyball. People are taking dogs that are absolutely insane and totally out of standard for temperament and making them into good flyball/agility dogs. They're still terrible pets and give off the wrong impression of the breed, but then you get everyone else going "oh, that's just how they're supposed to be, my dog doesn't have issues, he's just going to be a great agility dog!"
I don't know that agility has anything to do with sheltie problems at all. The agility dogs seem to be the best examples I can find of the temperament (although they are still loud). The ones with shoddy temperaments tend to be overly fearful and they don't make good agility dogs at all. I see them in all realms of the breed, not just sports dogs or show dogs, etc. If anything shelties are being bred more and more with a real lack of drive and energy than anything else.
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
Emma a sheltie mix and she does the spin spin spin thing...tho I hear that alot of herding breeds will do that.

I have wanted a sheltie since I could understand what one is...everything I have read my whole life has talked about how barky and insane they are. Nice to finally see another side of the coin.


that video was a trainers nightmare lol
If you ever decide to get one just do your research and you'll be fine. They're great dogs in the right hands.

All you really need to do is pick your breeder carefully (unless you're rescuing). Meet their dogs and decide if they're the kind of sheltie you can live with.

And then socialize the crap out of them as puppies. They need to be around new people and potentially scary noises from the get go and reinforced that those are not bad things.
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Zoom I have to disagree. Many of the 'crazy' drivey agility dogs I know (terriers or herding dogs) are nice family pets. THey just get all crazy when they know they get to play. Actually some of the craziest loudest fastest and barely in control BC on course are those who chill the best in fabric crates. (and I am so jealous cause none of my dogs will stay in fabric crates lol) between runs.

Sport hasn't gone to a trial yet because I am sure it is beyond his ability to deal with. However he is a delightful family pet. In the wrong home I am sure he would be a major pain (we were his third home at 11 months.. and there were reasons)

I would chalk it up to more people getting them and not knowing how to deal with them in an urban environment.
I guess I just run into the wrong people at the park I was talking to a lady with a BC (maybe mix) that was just spazzing out the entire time. I mentioned something about the dog really liking the park and she came back with "Oh, he's like this all the time. It drives me nuts, but it's ok. He's a border collie and this is what they're like. I'm trying to do that agility stuff with him, because he's the type I see winning on TV." I tried to explain that point about having an off-switch and she looked at me funny and said "he's a border collie. they don't have those. what about your dog?" Uh, yeah...he's running around the park but as soon as we're inside, he flops on the couch.

I highly agree with your last point though.
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