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  #11  
Old 12-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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urgh, it drives me insane when people just put things off because of their dogs breed
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2009, 10:11 AM
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I have actually learned how to deal with it. it doesnt even really bug me. i just wonder WHY! I posted this video on the sheltie forums and everyone was like "oh yeah mine do that! Thats what shelties do!" and it drives me crazy that people on that forum have that mind set. We get new members that are new to shelties and someone will post about their puppy being fearful, barking all the time, and nipping. And everyone just tells thats just how shelties are.
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Really? I never knew that.........I haven't been around shelties for more than a quick meeting at a park and such though. The ones I see on TV (Cesar Milan, misc training shows) are usually like that, but I thought it was just random instances and the owners were asking for help, LOL.
That's not what Beanie and I are trying to say at all at least on Chaz. I'm not on the sheltie board anymore, it makes me too sad because I miss them sooo much. There IS a tendency for shelties to be shy and fearful, barky and nippy, and neurotic moreso than most other breeds. It can be more of a problem than other breeds. Neurotic barking, extreme fearfulness, crazy behaviors, etc are NOT part of the appropriate sheltie temperament. They are vocal, yes, and it's pretty hard to get them to be completely quiet but you can train them to stop after a few barks. the shyness is a real temperament flaw, the breed is supposed to be aloof and wary but many days they're shy and timid. They're a very soft breed, it's easy to shut them down. They've been overbred and temperament has really gone down the drain creating these off the wall dogs. But even Trey, who WAS as crazy as the dogs in these videos, was taught not to bark incessantly, we crated him while vacuuming, and he would tolerate strangers and let them pet him (that took a ton of work). Most shelties are very very easy to live with (at least I find them to be). Nikki was ridiculously outgoing, confident, and easy.

All of my shelties attacked vacuums so we did preventative maintenance, I guess. (Ie: the shelties were never around when we vacuumed) Eventually Nikki would sit and stay around a vacuum or a mop (she'd groan and whine very quietly, which is much better than an all out attack.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is shelties have a very different brand of quirkiness and if not trained and mentally stimulated, you end up with those dogs in the video or worse. I think people need to understand that it takes work to have a balanced sheltie and it takes boundaries. Things often get overlooked because 'that's how they are' or 'that's part of their herding behaviors'. If you train them though, they're amazing and incredibly cool dogs to have around.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2009, 10:59 AM
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My sheltie wasn't like that at all. She was a barker but other than that she was a very sweet, well natured girl.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:13 AM
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Auggie does absolutely none of that. He DOES like to play in the water from the hose and he barks while playing but that's about it - unless you count going to get a toy and bringing it to "play" with the vacuum cleaner everytime you get the vacuum out. Seriously, he will bring a squeaky toy and place it on top of the vacuum and stare expectantly at it.
I don't think he's ever spun in his life. Happy will spin when he's excited, and my sister put a cue word to it, but Happy is the only one I've ever seen do that and he's not right in the head.

I agree that those people apparently find that neurotic behaviour cute and/or funny and so they encourage it. I think I've said it multiple times on here before, LOL - people who just accept that a sheltie is neurotic because "oh that's just what shelties do" are doing serious harm to the breed. The biggest issue is that a lot of people are BREEDING these kinds of dogs and producing more neurotic dogs. And the general public is getting this idea that shelties makes terrible pets.

It's honestly why it gives me a lot of joy to take Auggie out and about. He walks up to people in stores and looks at them expectantly until they pet him, and then his tail just wags and wags, and people go "Oh my gosh, he's so friendly! I thought shelties were supposed to be shy!" I took him to some parties at work and placed him on a chair next to me and he sat nicely in the chair the whole time, just watching everything go by - he's wonderfully obedient and quite calm unless it's go time, but he knows the difference between time to work/play and time to be a nice, quiet, calm boy.

There was a discussion I saw on the BC boards a while back (it was quite a long while back, I don't go there anymore) about if they are doing harm to the breed by "warning" people that a BC can be this, this, this, and that. They want people to be prepared to handle the unique challenges of a BC. But the question was if they are giving BCs a bad name because they're NOT over the top this this this and that, it's just a matter of wanting people to be prepared... but Johnny Q. Public is getting the impression that BCs are nutso and that, oh, that's just how they are, so there's nothing WRONG with my nutso BC acting nutso and by the way why don't we breed her?


I have more to say but I gotta go to work and also I usually end up typing a novel whenever I get going like this, LOL. A sheltie is a unique dog. I think all herding dogs are unique and each breed has their own unique challenges to them. Nothing is WRONG with any of the breeds as a whole... it's just the wrong people getting ahold of them and doing damage to dogs, the breed, and to the public perception.

I do what I can with Auggie to change people's minds.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
There was a discussion I saw on the BC boards a while back (it was quite a long while back, I don't go there anymore) about if they are doing harm to the breed by "warning" people that a BC can be this, this, this, and that. They want people to be prepared to handle the unique challenges of a BC. But the question was if they are giving BCs a bad name because they're NOT over the top this this this and that, it's just a matter of wanting people to be prepared... but Johnny Q. Public is getting the impression that BCs are nutso and that, oh, that's just how they are, so there's nothing WRONG with my nutso BC acting nutso and by the way why don't we breed her?


I have more to say but I gotta go to work and also I usually end up typing a novel whenever I get going like this, LOL. A sheltie is a unique dog. I think all herding dogs are unique and each breed has their own unique challenges to them. Nothing is WRONG with any of the breeds as a whole... it's just the wrong people getting ahold of them and doing damage to dogs, the breed, and to the public perception.
I agree, but there is a fine line between trying to explain particular challenges a breed might have versus expounding on stereotypes. I'm not sure what the right answer is but I do try my best to keep most people away from both BCs and shelties because I truly think neither is the best breed for most people. I feel with BCs most people know they need 'a job'. People still equate them with working on a farm but they really don't equate shelties with that. Mostly because they're not really used for that anymore. However, they still have pretty similar needs and they have a lot of behaviors that stem from their heritage. People get them expecting a lapdog and they are in no way a lapdog.

I know some of my posts make shelties sound like a really annoying/hard breed to deal with. They are NOT, but like any breed they can be in the wrong hands.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:37 AM
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Beanie> I get that a lot with Bounce. The 'I thought whippets are shy skitterish dogs'
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:43 AM
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It's probably not fair that I try to dissuade people... Honestly when we got our first sheltie we didn't know a thing about them past the fact that they were beautiful. She (and our others) still managed to be good, stable dogs.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2009, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I agree, but there is a fine line between trying to explain particular challenges a breed might have versus expounding on stereotypes. I'm not sure what the right answer is but I do try my best to keep most people away from both BCs and shelties because I truly think neither is the best breed for most people.
(sorry if this is disconnected, I'm running the football game so my attention is divided between working, listening to the game, and trying to think and type this. oh yeah and I'm hungry so I'm thinking about lunch too. LOL)

I agree that there is a fine line, I think that was a lot of the discussion. How do you tell people "Look, you have to be prepared for this" without making it sound really awful? I think the problem is that they are complex dogs so it's hard to give an overall impression quickly and simply. I mean, like how do you explain the concept of an off switch to somebody who's never dealt with working dogs before? I know plenty of people who DO have BCs that still don't understand the concept on an off switch... they just think they're supposed to be on all the time because that's the impression they've gotten, and they still don't know any better. Or worse, they WANT those dogs because they're "good" at dog sports...
It's that unique breed with unique challenges thing... it's hard to really accurately explain and describe the breed, especially if you're just talking briefly with somebody at PetSmart or whatever. I think in the end it does come off as "OMG these dogs!!" even though it's not really supposed to.

I also agree that people don't think of them as working dogs anymore. I don't think a lot of people even think of BCs as working dogs right off the bat when they picture a BC. People probably think that a dog actually being used to work stock is something archaic. =P


On the whole, and with ANY breed, I think the problem is that people do not understand the concept of putting in the effort to find a good breeder who is producing good dogs, or they simply don't want to put in the effort. People want things to be fast and easy and they'd rather just open the newspaper and the first ad that says "AKC SHELTIE PUPPIES MALES $500 FEMALES $600" they go to snag one. So yeah, it might be best to tell people "oh geez, these dogs bark at everything, they shed and it's nuts, this this this" and try to protect the breed, and try to protect a person from ending up with a dog that is too much for them and then they have no real idea how to address the challenges that might come up... I don't know.
It is hard because I don't want everybody to go running out and get a sheltie from Joe Blow and expect it to be like Auggie, because it's very likely that the dog will NOT be like Auggie. And seriously, not everybody wants a little snotbucket Auggie either, LOL. But I also hate for people to think they are terrible neurotic messes of dogs... I don't know. It's a dilemma.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2009, 01:18 PM
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Well that all makes a little more sense to me, they can have TENDENCIES, but they can be controlled, managed, and/or trained to a "livable" level, much like any other breed, because we all know each breed can come with their own tendencies to watch out for.

.........I did state, and still DO find it ODD that a Sheltie board (supposedly knowledgeable about their breed) would tell new members "that's just how they are" instead of "yep, they can be that way and here's some ideas and tools to work on it"
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
On the whole, and with ANY breed, I think the problem is that people do not understand the concept of putting in the effort to find a good breeder who is producing good dogs, or they simply don't want to put in the effort. People want things to be fast and easy and they'd rather just open the newspaper and the first ad that says "AKC SHELTIE PUPPIES MALES $500 FEMALES $600" they go to snag one. So yeah, it might be best to tell people "oh geez, these dogs bark at everything, they shed and it's nuts, this this this" and try to protect the breed, and try to protect a person from ending up with a dog that is too much for them and then they have no real idea how to address the challenges that might come up... I don't know.
It is hard because I don't want everybody to go running out and get a sheltie from Joe Blow and expect it to be like Auggie, because it's very likely that the dog will NOT be like Auggie. And seriously, not everybody wants a little snotbucket Auggie either, LOL. But I also hate for people to think they are terrible neurotic messes of dogs... I don't know. It's a dilemma.
Part of my problem is the dogs I got out of the newspaper (both under $300 a piece) were so much more balanced than my well bred dog and much more balanced than most 'well bred' shelties I've met. It's slightly disillusioned me from the breed because so many of the show breeders are producing neurotic and shy dogs. Trey was not a dog most people would have liked, but the other two would have fit in easily in many situations. So its hard to explain to people about them. Plus everyone who met my dogs, loved them and only saw the way they behaved. To most people that have known my paps and my shelties both, they think the shelties were easier and that's honestly not really the case. Trey was everyone's favorite because he was so sweet and quiet and beautiful, but they didn't see the work we had had to put into him to make him that way. In the wrong hands, he would have been a very dangerous dog.

It's hard for me to say shelties are this and that when my three were so vastly different. Unfortunately Treys, and Happys, and Ruckuses are not that unusual in the breed and I'm not sure how to explain that and at the same time talk about the Lynns, the Nikkis, and The Auggies. If that makes sense...
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