Took puppy out for first time today..

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Forums are great for participating, but one of the main reasons for these dog forums is also to EDUCATE for the well being of all dogs!

And you'll quickly figure out what most people think of Cesar on this forum lol. Just because some guy on TV is jerking his dog around does not mean it's necessary for every dog owner to do the same. It's ONE method of training, not the ONLY method, and it's something that many of us here disagree with.

This is because you guys are extremists.

We are trying to discuss windows and 'this old house' and people interested in renovations will watch that show.

Then on the internet forums a small group of environmentalists take over the home renovation forums to promote green living: 'you don't need hot water'.

This is what is happening in the dog world online.

Why do mainstream dog owners call Ceasar Milan for hlep? Ah yes. Because he really is an expert and doesn't consider them humans with fur on them (as most people here consider dogs).

There are millions, and millions of mainstream dog households all over the USA.

There are a SMALL minority.. a fraction of a vocal percent that have extremist viewpoint like 'don't use a choke chain becuase it psycologically damages the dog'. Or 'don't get your cat declawed because the cat can't write it's diary at night' or some wild, wild extremist viewpoints.

If you understood dogs and cats, you would know why the dog cannot get psycological damage over a choke chain or a declawing etc.

[Upendi&Mina]

A big part of the point of these forums is to educate, so that point is null.

Second using a choke chain on a small dog or puppy is a big no no, do you know what can happen? A collapsed trachea that's what.

Third, I hate to tell you, but you're not going to be able to train that by yelling at him or raising your voice. The only way it's done is to make it FUN for the dog.

[Dekka]

No surprisingly we aren't. Most of the people on this forum are just normal pet owners. Some are more involved in the dog industry than others.

BUT if you talk about sales of collars etc.. choke chains are not the most. You yourself said people in petsmart weren't controlling their dogs with choke chains.

If you understood dogs... LOL ok not going to happen. But the damage caused by choke chains is PHYSICAL. Proven and came as a surprise to the people doing it.

WHy do some people call CM? Why do some people go on the Jerry Springer show? I don't know why. Why does his show never show people after? Why do his clients have a high rate of relapse (compared to behaviour modification)?

WHy do major Vet societies speak out against him?

See if you WERE educated you would be interested in these questions.

[Linds]

No.

You choose to justify your substandard care of your dog and lack of knowledge about dogs by calling people who are experienced with them dogs fanatics.

There are fanatics in the animal world that view animals as children and give them rights on par or higher than humans.

These. People. Are. Not. Them.

You just call them that because you believe it negates anything they say and then label the advice as being unreasonable. Then you state that your own lack of education about a subject you like to preach about is the correct and the "mainstream" way. It's not.

You can disregard the sound advice given to you by a experienced mechanic about your car and the only one it will end up hurting is yourself. With dogs it ends up them who pay.

[HayleyMarie]

So lets see instead of using the correct safe way to train your dog to walk you decide to use a chock chain. You are ok with putting your dog in danger with the chance that his trachea will collapse. right.

[Dekka]

You know another word of fanatic?

Expert

He is intimidated by our experience and knowledge. He is like a 8 year old boy trying to make up facts to argue with Post Docs to try to impress other 8 year olds. Its awfully funny.

Crush.. I love you.. YOU are the perfect example for me to use with clients. THANK You for choosing Chaz to troll.

[Upendi&Mina]

You know the funny thing Crush? Caesar Millan is a TRUE extremist.

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by Crush

If you understood dogs and cats, you would know why the dog cannot get psycological damage over a choke chain

There has been much evidence of the psychological effects of using aversives on a dog. There are physical changes that reflect the psychological effects - increased heart rate, increased respiration rate, increased body temperature ~ all very much the same physical responses that accompany a panic attack.

There also is physical damage done to the trachea when a choke collar is used, as well as the oxygen being restricted. Aversives also create associations of pain and fear in the dog, and not in predictable ways.

[HayleyMarie]

The Dangers of Choke, Pinch (prong), and Shock Collars

[drmom777]

I think Crush may be unclear on what a trachea is. Trachea is not a psychological term like id or superego. The trachea is also known as the windpipe in common parlance and is the way your dog gets air to oxygenate his tissues.

Choke collars used on dogs, especially small breed puppies who have notoriously fragile windpipes, can and have done damage to their tracheas, including collapsing the trachea, which causes the dog to go into respiratory distress and is a medical, not psychological, emergency.