Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Health Care


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-19-2009, 05:31 PM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default Rebuttal to Chris Zink's Article

Since there is so much "broohaha" or whatever you wanna call it, about early s/n I found this article and thought I would post.

Just something from the opposite side. I am somewhere more along the middle. While I don't think it's damaging to have an early s/n I do reccommend it for novice pet people. I myself don't like dealing with girls in season, but I left both of my two intact until well over two yrs old

Rebuttal for early s/n
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-19-2009, 05:36 PM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,326
Default

Thats intersting.. but the one article I usually point too (as its a summary of many scientific articles) is this one. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf and its not by the same person.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:33 AM
LittleBigDog LittleBigDog is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 548
Default

I recently learned about the Cooley study.

Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk ? Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention

I think it is significant if you have a puppy of a breed prone to bone cancer. I think it is significant as far as human health, too. Dogs are very genetically similar to humans and they are being studied as models for human cancer.

We don't neuter kids, but if endogenous sex hormones are protective in early development, that makes endocrine disrupting chemicals in the environment like BPA in plastic cups and bottles very significant. A friend I worked with had a son lose a leg to bone cancer when he was 15. She had a background in medical research, and another possible risk for bone cancers is fluoride in water and food. She researched total fluoride in his diet from the water supply in the area he grew up, (added on the high side), and also found that since he was a big fan of orange juice which can have high fluoride levels, that this could have been at least a partial cause.

It is really a devastating disease. Here's an article about fluoride levels in pet foods.

Terre Haute News, Terre Haute, Indiana- TribStar.com - PAW PRINTS: Fluoride in pet food: The link to osteosarcoma

Also, they just found that BPA is causing some serious hormonal disruptions in men who work with the chemical.
__________________
This account has been closed.

Last edited by LittleBigDog; 11-20-2009 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:59 AM
elegy's Avatar
elegy elegy is offline
overdogged
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,695
Default

i'd be able to take the rebuttal article more seriously if the author had taken the time to discover that chris zink is a woman. but anyway.

the article from javma is the one i tend to link most often these days: here
__________________
ARCHX Luce CD CD-H RA RL3 RLV RL2X RL1X CGC TT
Steve RA RL1 CL1-R CL1-F ONYX
Bean FDCh-G
and Hambone, flyball hopeful
Save the pit bull, Save the world
Are you Unruly?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:38 AM
GlassOnion's Avatar
GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 9,065
Default

How does the author's knowledge of the sex of the other author in any way affect the validity of his claims?
__________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- 'WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!!' " - Author Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-22-2009, 05:56 AM
elegy's Avatar
elegy elegy is offline
overdogged
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,695
Default

attention to detail.
__________________
ARCHX Luce CD CD-H RA RL3 RLV RL2X RL1X CGC TT
Steve RA RL1 CL1-R CL1-F ONYX
Bean FDCh-G
and Hambone, flyball hopeful
Save the pit bull, Save the world
Are you Unruly?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-23-2009, 01:56 PM
phillo phillo is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Default neuter or not??

I am so confused by this neuter issue. All vets will say you must neuter a dog at 6 or 9 mos. However, it seems the risk of testicular cancer is actually pretty slim in dogs, like less than 2%? But the risks of neutoring a male dog, especially mid to large size dogs, are pretty high.

I have 9 month old, intact male who will probably be about 60 lbs when fully grown. He does not mark indoors, he does not exhibit any more mounting behavior than neutored males (in fact he lives with a neutered beagle/dachshund mix puppy who is CONSTANTLY humping him) and he is not aggressive. I have no intention of breeding him nor does he wander unsupervised, his chances of hooking up with an intact female are slim to none. I also feed him a mix of home prepared food and Evo dog food so he's not eating a lot of crap.

I'm frustrated because I don't feel like I can have an honest conversation with my vet about it. It seems that any vet professional will say 'neuter' period, end of discussion. I just came from the vet where I was given the neutor speech and I just nod and say 'uh huh'. I feel that if I discuss my concerns I'll sound like a conspiracy theorist or something. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but I didn't want to start a new thread and any insight would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:17 PM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default

Phillo, for most it is easiest to just get the dog neutered when the vet says to. The big arguments about not s/n at 6 months are mainly for people who do dog sports. Agility, flyball, herding etc can all take a toll on the dog's bones and joints, so people want to make sure that the dog grows and matures to his/her full potential before taking those hormones out of play.

Not sure of the exact specifics of rates of testicular cnacer, but I have known more than one person who had to get their dog neutered due to testicular cancer. I don't think the rates are very high, but it is a risk in all unneutered males.

As long as both of your dogs testicles are descended you can keep him intact as long as you'd like. A dog with an undescended testicle is at a higher risk for cancer and it's best to go ahead and get that taken care of. The thing with owning an intact male is you have to realize how quick a breeding can take place. You have to be completely sure that he cannot ever get out of the fence, and if you walk him offlead anywhere you have to be extra vigilant to keep an eye out for stray dogs.

If you have the means to responsibly keep him intact and you'd like to wait until his growth plates close before neutering, the optimum time for that is 18-30 months.

Just weight your options and do what you feel is right. I will tell you, I have only ever owned one unneutered male. He was neutered at about 20 months. All our other males were neutered ASAP because there was no research to say otherwise. We have yet to own a dog with hip dysplasia or any joint issues aside from the aches that come with old age.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2009, 07:50 AM
phillo phillo is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Default

Thanks a lot for that thoughtful response. I do plan to do agility/dog sports training with my dog and will wait and study the issue over the next year before making a decision either way. Again, thanks for the helpful input.
Phil
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site