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  #11  
Old 11-18-2009, 12:38 AM
Xeph Xeph is offline
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Yeah. I personally have no problem with the white color and think that if it is to be accepted, they should be accepted as a color variety or just go in with the others. I don't think they should be a separate breed.

But that's another thread xD
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:33 AM
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The white breeders want them to be a separate breed because they can't show since the color is considered a fault. They are calling them something like a Swiss Shepherd, I can't remember the exact name. As far as registry, AKC will register anything- look at all the horribly bred puppy mill pups who are "AKC".

There was someone around here a while back who had some whites that they were working.

We had a white at a club I belonged to, he was a fear biter. You had to practically feed the dog the sleeve to get him to bite. They finally told the guy they wouldn't work his dog anymore- he wanted to use it for security work and stuff, and the club directors didn't want their name attached to the dog. The guy kept insisting that he'd bite so the club director told him that he was so confident the dog wouldn't bite, he'd let him send the dog on him without any suit or sleeve. The dog never got closer than 20' to him, just stayed that distance away and barked. The guy still thinks the dog is able to work.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:43 AM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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in my opinion, the white gsd is only poor quality IF you get a dog from poor quality. There are just as many poor quality gsd's of ANY color out there.

There are alot of white gsd's that are just as nice as any other 'color' of gsd, you see a few in obedience/agility, anything but the conformation ring.

Intelligence comes from the dog not the specific color)
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2009, 08:16 AM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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Let's just put it out there, Capt. Max Von Stephanitz said it perfectly "No GOOD dog is a BAD color".

One half of Lacey's pedigree comes from white dogs. Obviously none of them shown in AKC, but shown under the WGSDCA (I think that's the acronym anyway) just like livers and blues they can be registered just not shown in conformation. But if conformation showing doesn't matter to you (like it doesn't to me) then it's all gravy.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2009, 02:41 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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i never said ALL white gsd breeders are byb's i said those breeding AKC GSDS with no working background are BYB's

the akc is good for a few things Confirmation
agility and obedience...

now lets take AKC GSD breeder #1 she has white gsds which she breeds also and ONLY competes in cofirmation with her dogs...
im MY opinion this person WOULD be a byb, because she doesnt PROVE her white dogs in any way, they cant be shown in the ring and this is all this retorical breeder copetes in so what has she doen to PROVE her dogs worthy...he white dogs may or may not confirm to the breed standard other than color...but what have they done to "PROVE themselves worthy of continuing the line

now ACK gsd breeder #2: breeds normal and white shepards, this breeder does confirmation, agility and obedience...of course the white gsds arent shown in confirmation but her white gsds do hold titles in agility and obedience...this WOULDNT be a BYB as shes PROVEN her white dogs just as Worthy of adding to the breeds gene pool.

both of these are assuming health testing.

so i see an add for "AKC white gsd puppies" and i look into it i find out the breeder does basic health tests...but otherwise her marvelous white dogs dont hold ANY titles...not even CGC...WHY whould anyone buy a dog from that person...
these folks use AKC as a selling point NOT as a way of proving the dog.

if i was buying a WORKING breed (the gsd is a working breed) it needs to at least prove itself basically capable of still doing that job...
this is also why i have very little respect for the "pretty" show ring dogs, an AKC show rings gsd's back is so badly roached that dog could NOT do a full days work.

and again in the UKC whites are accepted in the ring. i hope that makes more sense...

as a side note theres a huge difference in line breeding to fix a traint and flat out multi gen inbreeding...and the later can cause mentall defects, including "dumb dog syndrome" as i heard it called in the uk.
when done properly, occasionally it fixes a trait but as i said "LOTS" will cause defects.

i think white gsds are gorgeous...but i would never buy an AKC white gsd unless its got multi titles in agility and obedicence and is preferably UKC cross registered...
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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foxy what you are missing is you can't do conformation with a white GSD, as they are a color fault which is a disqualification. The problem is the same as any GSD breeder who is breeding for color or size "Old School GSDs!! Huge big boned dogs!". You breed for those things and you leave out the important ones, like temperament and working ability.
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:14 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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UKC white CAN show confirmations

and i know you cant akc confirmation show white, thats why i personally feel an akc breeder breeding for color only and not doing OB or agiltiy (which white can do in akc) or other form of Work is a BYB, AKC or not, breeding only for color is bad enough, breeding only for color in a color that cant be shown in confirmation then adding AKC to the title to make it look "special" is even worse.
but aparently im not getting me thoughts into words correctly.

ive seen good white shepard breeders (especaillu UKC) who not only do confirmation wiht their whites (again UKC acceptable color) but also do agitlity, obedience and other work...these are GOOD breeders despite breeding for a color specifically...

i do agree with you on the point that anyone breeding for something as specific as color or size and NOT PROVING their dogs somewhere other than "oh hes huge" is a BYB no matter what the registry.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:48 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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the way I see it, there are ALOT of breeders that show "only" in conformation, for reasons of their own, that is their "thing", they don't have the time to do other sports, they don't want to do other sports, just because a dog is shown in conformation only does NOT in my opinion, make them a BYB. (tho I'm not saying they aren't either)

CGC is NOT a title, agility in my opinion is not 'working' , (tho if I'm persuing agility I'm going to a breeder who does agility and does it good with their dog),,that is not to demean agility, but to me it's a "sport", Herding is working, Schutzund shows the working ability of the dog, Obedience tells me they have one smart dog and put alot of time in it.

I would not dismiss someone who showed in conformation only if it was a dog I was interested in, tho that is not my 'thing' .

There are alot of dogs out there, that have titles all over the place that I wouldn't consider, and then again there are dogs out there that have no titles that I would consider as well..

It's all about "the dog",,
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:39 PM
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colliewog colliewog is offline
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A little off topic, but curious ... has anyone ever seen an 'extreme' white GSD (i.e. like some of the overdone conformation dogs)? Because I have not, and I've seen quite a few White Shepherds in UKC and a few more over the years in OB and AG.
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:41 PM
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I have to agree. Most of the white shepherds I have seen (UKC) seem to be a lot more stable in the rear than the AKC shepherds, regardless of color. And no roach backs either.
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