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  #31  
Old 09-06-2005, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwood322
My issues on docking and cropping.

If cropping is for sanitary reasons, why do cocker spaniels, or springer spaniels have uncropped ears when they are very prone to ear infections and problems. Or even breeds like bassets, bloodhounds, and coonhounds, with their big hanging ears. If cropping is alternately for guardian breeds, why do they crop ears so that they are actually easier to grab. Ears that stick up are much easier to grab than ears that are close to a dog's head.

If docking is for health/safety reasons, why is it only certain breeds. Border Collies keep their tails, but Aussies are docked, yet they are breeds used for very similar functions, with similar tails. I had an Aussie with a full tail, and as long as it was brushed out we had no problems whatsoever. Setters kept their tails while some spaniels are docked, yet they have about the same amount of fur. The pics I've seen of undocked spaniels don't look any worse than a rough border collies tail. or what about greyhounds. They get tail injuries all the time due to the thiness and very thin skin.

I met a doberman with both ears and tail still attached, and the dog had no health problems from it. The tail was actually fairly think, not whip thin like a greyhound. Ears were comparable to a lab short and triangular.

I love asussies and spaniels, but am probably not going to buy one from a breeder due to the tail docking. I think the lack of a tail definitely puts them at a disadvantage when communicating with other dogs, and I don't like having pieces that are not causing a distinct problem removed. (Yes I know that some aussies are natural bobtails)

--Mia




You have put it perfectly, couldnt agree more!!!
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  #32  
Old 09-06-2005, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight
No they should be left as nature intended
WITH A TAIL!!!

Thankfully Cropping is Illegal in this county, I ABSOLUTELY HATE cropping, it is just soooooooooooo un nessesary!!!
Erroneous

Nature never intended for these breeds to come about. Because of human intervention, we have created these breeds of canine.

The real question is whether docking the tails is necessary in order to live a happy & productive life.
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:34 PM
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It makes me absolutley enraged to hear it does nothing for them. My poor dobe was in pain for weeks from an ear infection when he was little. The vets couldn't get it to go waay and the meds did nothing. they finally cropped him anyway and he was 98% better the next day. If I couldn't have cropped him what would we have done?! If it was illegal he would have been put down. He was in constant pain and never wanted his head touched. I ma so lucky they went ahead and did it. Now most dogs might not have that happen but for the few it happens to its more than worth getting done.

And I don't know any cockers or bassets that don't suffer from ear infections. Sucks for them but that why I only have dogs woth erect ears,except our pound puppy who needs her ears cleaned all the time.

And the grabbing is harder because you get rid of the bell part of the ear. The base isn't there to pull on.

the breeds were developed for a reason. They get cropped and docked for a reason. Its so they do live a healthy and productive life You can't do that if your tail wont heal or you have an ear infedtion and wont let people touch your head. I'm sure most of you saying this also live intown were your dogs have no risk of hurting themselves but just a bunch of trees could easilly break a dobes or boxers tail. I think its sick to tell people it doens't need done.
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  #34  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:37 PM
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They don't dock a basset's or cocker's ears because both use their nose for hunting and it is said that the ears channel scent to their nose or summat (I'll let the people who know the breed explain that better) so cropping would go against the whole reason they bred for the long ears in the first place :P
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  #35  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:39 PM
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Not to mention cropping one of them would be painfull. It isn't just cartillage there. They have a lot more ear that would need to be cut than on breeds that are docked. I have heard of cockers just getting there working parts of the ear remioved becaue its so bad though. Wish it was as easy as a crop for them
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  #36  
Old 09-06-2005, 04:22 PM
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Most of the places where docking and cropping are outlawed, allow it for medical reasons. In your case they probably would have allowed cropping anyway, as it was a necessary procedure for your dog at that time...

I don't have any problem if it is done for a valid medical reason, such as chronic ear infections, or a heavily damaged tail. I do have problems with non necessary cropping or docking, cutting it off just in case something might happen bothers me.

Another one for the docking part. Golden Retrievers. They have those huge feathery tails that get caught in everything, but they don't get docked.

I'm generally against un necessary dew claw removal as well. I'm not talking about dogs that have floppy or extra dewclaws that pose a hazard. I'm talking about removing healthy functional toes just because they might get caught on something one day. Again my dogs except for the aussie have had dewclaws, and not had any problems as long as you kept them trimmed.

--Mia
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  #37  
Old 09-06-2005, 04:35 PM
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Goldens never were docked though. there tails are pretty thick and would not suffer damage like a thinner tail. I've never seen a golden with a screwed up tail but then again I don't know any goldens that do actual work But labs have very thick tails and I have seen them with horribel tail injuries. Same with pits. I had a guy at the shelter tell me that one group of people that were breeding them for fighting were breeding them with thinner tails and every time they got them in as rescues the tails would be horrible. I think they finally got them all taken away though. My bfs old roomates dog almost had hers removed when she was three because it opened up on the back and never healed. the vet was going to take it off for only sixty bucks cuz he felt so bad for her but when he told them all the risks they didn't get it done, at least then, they may have by now. It was so sick one day she was waggin her tail and blood was going everywhere. It was like she was used to it though. But she hated to have her tial touched.

My problem with the exception is that if my dog would have been properly cropped a week before I got him like he ideally should have been he would hav never had to go through the pain at all. And if it had been illegal how many vets would have to sign off on it or who would say how long he would have to be in pain before it could be done. Not to mention how hard it would be to find a good cropper then. And to dock later is so much more dangeroues and harder to heal.
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  #38  
Old 09-06-2005, 05:26 PM
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For the goldens I compare them more to the aussies. They have tons of fur in their rear end and I have seen several with feces stuck in their tail due to owners not paying attention. Yet on several aussie sites, cleanliness was listed as a reason for tail docking, as if theirs was the only breed with a heavy coat. My tailed aussie had a tail that wasn't skinny, but wasn't thick either.

Bacially my point meanders down to there are breeds that have very similar tails, yet one breed is docked and another isn't. There are breeds that have chronic ear infections, yet they are not cropped while breeds that aren't as suseptible are cropped.

Back to the tail thing. Aussies are docked, or naturally tailless, whereas rough collies, shelties, english shepherds, border collies, bearded collies, kelpies, and australian cattle dogs are not docked, yet used for much the same purpose, and several have the same amount of coat and tail. just because some are born without tails is that really any reason to cut the tails off the rest just to make the breed appear the same??

I did find on one site that sometime in the past a docked tail meant a dog wasn't taxed because it was the mark of a working dog.

--Mia
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  #39  
Old 09-06-2005, 08:28 PM
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I am completely against tail docking and ear cropping. I own a Doberman with au Natural ears and tail...no ear infections, no tail injuries. My Newfoundland dogs have heavy drop down ears and this breed can be prone to ear infections if the dog is not on a proper diet. All 3 of my Newf's have nice clean ears. All of our Cocker Spaniel customer's who have their dogs on a proper diet don't suffer from ear infections either.
IMO, I think most guardian type dogs have their tails docked and ears cropped for the image only. When someone sees a Rottweiler with full tail they are not likely to be afraid of the dog (resembling a Lab)...the Rottweilers with tails docked are more often feared due to the appearance...and remember every time someone steps away from your dog in fear can make that dog a little bit more of a bully. We have proved this time and time again...the horrible owner of my rescue Rottweiler had her tail amputated (docked, same thing)...people react much differently to my docked Rottie than a few friends whose Rotties are not docked and have their natural tails.
It's all just a fashion statement, and a docked tail does not prevent injury when on the hunt...if it did prevent injury then all hunting dogs would have their tails docked.....and hey, why don't we just shave them all too...those long coats on some of the retrievers can carry many burdocks etc. get caught in trees, shrubs etc. why didn't the hunters think of that...
Quote:
I just can't imagine my little Corgi with a tail ... Kairi would just look, wierd!
yanya, so, you have never seen a Cardigan Welsh Corgi??? they have a full tail...the Pembroke Welsh Corgi is the variety whose tail is docked. I don't find any thing weird about the Cardigan variety.
Another thing to keep in mind, a removing a dogs tail is in fact removing an important body part used for balance, maneuvering and communication. Some dogs have been reported to be bothered for life, perhaps due to a sort of phantom pain...simular to when a person has a body part amputated...they still get pains in the amputated body part...oh, if only our dogs could talk...would they ever give these cruel people who amputate their wonderful tails a peice of their mind
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  #40  
Old 09-06-2005, 08:58 PM
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Yeah and I'm sure they would want their testicles and ovaries back too, if they could talk.

Look over this thread b/c this topic was a popular thread a couple months back too. http://www.chazhound.com/forums/show...t=tail+docking
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