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  #11  
Old 10-27-2009, 02:48 PM
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Upendi&Mina Upendi&Mina is offline
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Well, for one thing, that doesn't even qualify as an instinct test. I don't know what can be tested just by walking a leashed dog past the sheep. And 100 does sound pretty steep, and way too high if that's really all he'll do with her.

An instinct test does require the dog to be in the pen with the stock, and might initially begin on leash to make sure the dog has some control, but more likely is loose or dragging a longline. To instinct test, you need to see more than whether or not the dog will turn her head to look at sheep. You need to see if the dog will chase, gather, drive, etc.
That's what I thought, but when he explained it this is exactly what he said "It's pretty simple, you'll bring your dog in on a leash and we'll see if she has any interest in sheep"
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2009, 03:29 PM
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go watch some other ones first. Maybe he just doesn't care to elaborate too much on the phone because he's had a thousand people call him in the past wanting an evaluation over the phone. It happens. It's normal to have questions, but I can't blame some people when they get burned out sometimes.

People have a thousand questions on the phone about schutzhund all we really say is bring them out and we'll see if they have drive. They want a 30 minute explanation about what that means, and really I don't have time to explain it to every person that calls. I have my own dogs, others to train, a "regular" job, work on the house, football games to get to, whatever. the person will learn more if they show up anyway, and if some are turned off by it, so be it.

I only have so much time and if they don't want to "waste" any time to come out just to see what its like, odds are they probably wouldn't stick with it for longer than a couple weeks anyway. I don't have time for that.

so yeah, ask if you can come without a dog and watch. you spend some time, save the money and see what's involved. Maybe a learn a bit. If all he does is let people walk by his sheep on a leash for a hundred bucks, move along.
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2009, 03:34 PM
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Honestly, I don't get the point of an 'instinct test'. You really won't know how well your dog will work till after a few times of working. Of course you'd know if they are interested or not with the first exposure, but charging $100 for that? That's highway robbery. IMO, you should only charge the price of a training lesson (around here it's about $40).
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2009, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
Honestly, I don't get the point of an 'instinct test'. You really won't know how well your dog will work till after a few times of working.
True, although sometimes an instinct test alone tells all...Ares did amazingly on his instinct test. The tester almost used him at the end of the day to help put the sheep back in the barn.

I tested Nyx in my front yard on geese, and am now dying to get her to a herding trainer.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2009, 04:36 PM
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That's high for this state at least. It was $40-$50 depending on which farm I wanted to go to for the test and that's an hour of the trainer 1 on 1 with my dog.
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2009, 05:24 PM
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I've never paid more than $30 for an instinct test ... and these were sanctioned events that led to instinct certificates.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2009, 08:55 PM
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thinking about this a little more, maybe he charges 100 bucks to keep the people who aren't serious from wasting his time? maybe he gets a ton of calls, sets up appointments and people don't show, or whatever. i also think a good evaluator will be able to tell if a dog has the instinct to do it within a few minutes, it doesn't have to be something that takes several sessions. pretty much the same with protection training- either they have it or they don't. some dogs you can bring it out but they'll never be as good as the ones who take to it right away.
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
Honestly, I don't get the point of an 'instinct test'. You really won't know how well your dog will work till after a few times of working. Of course you'd know if they are interested or not with the first exposure, but charging $100 for that? That's highway robbery. IMO, you should only charge the price of a training lesson (around here it's about $40).
In the case of my herding trainer, Nat, instinct testing is very important as to whether she will take a dog on to work or not. It may sound elitist, but it isn't. Nat works with any dog that will show sound instinct on sheep. She's even trained dogs that are not any inkling of a herding breed, just for a fun activity that their owners can do with them.

Not all dogs will work well, but many work with their owners for fun. And t make sure everyone has fun, a proper instinct test is vital.

To answer the OP, I can really only echo others. Finn's instinct evaluation was an hour long, and involved some time on the long line to review his reactions. Once she decided his reactions were good, she took him off leash and worked him a little. The whole hour was spent on sheep, and she learned a lot in that hour about how hard/soft he was, the things we would have to focus on in training, and things he was good at. We chatted afterwards for a good half hour.

It was $40.
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:53 PM
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But the only thing an 'instinct test' will tell you is....if they have an interest in stock.
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Upendi&Mina View Post
That's what I thought, but when he explained it this is exactly what he said "It's pretty simple, you'll bring your dog in on a leash and we'll see if she has any interest in sheep"
Heck when I was in Brookville PA at my friends farm where he has cattle Lola had an interest in them when I took her up the hill to see them and it did not cost me a dime to do that. We were about 10 feet away from the gate and one was right behind the gate. As she was sitting there watching him and he was standing there watching her he (was the bull) let out a big moo, Lola jumped back about 2 feet and started barking at him
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