Cesar vs. YOU.

[Doberluv]

On the Cesar magazine thread, Elegy brought up a great question for those Cesar fans or I guess, for anyone. I said to myself, "Touche`"

Someone was at a park and another person's dog was snarky about being touched or patted on the back. This wise Chaz member showed the owner how to give food while touching the back and the other thing that bothered the dog. (I forget) And conditioned the dog to thinking being patted on the back was actually a pretty cool thing, as he got yummy treats when this happened. Elegy asked this Chaz member what would Cesar do. Well, I'm pretty sure it would involve force or threats of some kind or degree, but I left it up to the person she asked. It got me thinking.....(imagine that. lol)

Take these behaviors and write what you would do and what you picture Cesar or someone who uses his "methods" doing to fix the problem. AND, write down what the long term affect would likely be....down the road.

Dog has a toy in his mouth that he doesn't want to let you have. He is not growling but is hanging on tightly to the toy and turning his head away when you reach out for it. His body stiffens a little and his head freezes where it is. He may hold his ears back. He looks at you out of the corner of his eye...the white showing a little.


Dog does not want to walk with you on the leash and just plants his butt on the ground. He appears unafraid, but as though he just doesn't feel like walking. You don't know if he may have pain in his back or legs but he is not limping.

Dog does not want to walk past a big, white propane tank. He is planting his back feet, shrinking down and has his ears pinned back, his tail is held tightly to his rear.



Dog guards his food from the other family dog. (there are just 2 dogs) If the other dog comes within 10 feet of his food, he snarls and lunges toward the other dog to defend his food. Sometimes he even jumps him, placing his teeth over his neck, making a big hoopla, but doesn't draw blood ever.


Anyhow, this is to show that there is more than one way to deal with issues. People just need to ask themselves, why not do it with the least amount of wear and tear on the dog and on the owner?

[Dekka]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

Anyhow, this is to show that there is more than one way to deal with issues. People just need to ask themselves, why not do it with the least amount of wear and tear on the dog and on the owner?

Ok not the point of the thread BUT.. I think its for the power trip they get. In this day and age it can't be because they think its the only way to train (not really)

[Doberluv]

I agree. That is a big bonus for a lot of people....especially those who feel powerless. I mean, to be able to over power a smaller, less intelligent species makes the smallest of the small feel better about themselves. Or they simply, really think dogs are on the edge, ready to have complete domination over them and it's war against the dogs.

[Dekka]

It really is a war on dogs...

Even VS's show is called its Me or the Dog. The general society mindset is very antagonistic to dogs. Look at the bans.. I could go on but think I am going to go hug a puppy instead.

[elegy]

Originally Posted by Dekka

The general society mindset is very antagonistic to dogs.

this is something i was thinking a lot about recently with regards to restraint and handling in a veterinary setting. dr sophia yin has a book out about less stressful restraint and we were reading some stuff and watching some videos about it at work. it made me think about the pinning down we do of dogs instead of teaching them to tolerate things like nail trimming. sometimes it's unavoidable, but nail trimming issues are a big pet peeve of mine. (she had a clip from cesar, interestingly. the little floofy dog who would not tolerate trimming around his face and was biting while cesar was wielding big scissors right by his face.)

anyway, i used to subscribe to the idea that i must "win" or else the dog "wins" and he'll learn that he can "win" and therefore i "lose" and it just builds and builds. thankfully i've learned otherwise since then, and the idea that i must win and my dog must loose makes me sad. instead i've learned to cut out the conflict and teach the dog to be comfortable with what's going on. yes, sometimes it takes longer. but it's infinitely less stressful for everybody in the long run.

we refer to dogs as "man's best friend" but it sure doesn't feel like we treat them as friends in return a lot of the time.

[Bailey08]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

Or they simply, really think dogs are on the edge, ready to have complete domination over them and it's war against the dogs.

I'm telling you. I'm on another, wholly unrelated forum that also has an animal subforum. Every time someone posts about *any* issue having to do with their dog, there are a bunch of people telling them that they need to follow Cesar and be the alpha and their dog is just trying to dominate them.

Seriously, the puppy just needs to learn bite inhibition! He's not trying to be the d@mn pack leader! LOL.

[Renee750il]

You know, all that Cesar crap goes out the window when you realize you're going to be dealing with a dog that is as big as -- or bigger -- than you, infinitely stronger and faster and perfectly capable of deciding one day that she (or he) isn't buying this puny two legged, hairless, slow, defenseless hooman as the bully-boss anymore.

[Doberluv]

Originally Posted by Renee750il

You know, all that Cesar crap goes out the window when you realize you're going to be dealing with a dog that is as big as -- or bigger -- than you, infinitely stronger and faster and perfectly capable of deciding one day that she (or he) isn't buying this puny two legged, hairless, slow, defenseless hooman as the bully-boss anymore.

No sh%#!

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by elegy

it made me think about the pinning down we do of dogs instead of teaching them to tolerate things like nail trimming. sometimes it's unavoidable, but nail trimming issues are a big pet peeve of mine.

When Ares was a puppy I was taught how to effectively restrain him for nail trimming...in some pretty awful ways...

I then brought him to a friend who was a groomer and asked her to help trim his nails because it had pretty much escalated to being a two person job. I brought all sorts of gear with me...prong collar, halti, muzzle...

She looked at all that and asked what I thought we were going to do with them? She then handed me a bucket of treats and parked me in front of Ares while she clipped his nails. Not a single objection out of him.

Over time, I have been able to regain his trust regarding nail trimming, to the point where the last time I did them, he laid on his back -- not in a submissive gesture, but because it was more comfortable, and because he completely trusted me ~ and this is a dog who rarely lets his guard down enough to be on his back.

Originally Posted by Renee750il

You know, all that Cesar crap goes out the window when you realize you're going to be dealing with a dog that is as big as -- or bigger -- than you, infinitely stronger and faster and perfectly capable of deciding one day that she (or he) isn't buying this puny two legged, hairless, slow, defenseless hooman as the bully-boss anymore.

[filarotten]

Originally Posted by Renee750il

You know, all that Cesar crap goes out the window when you realize you're going to be dealing with a dog that is as big as -- or bigger -- than you, infinitely stronger and faster and perfectly capable of deciding one day that she (or he) isn't buying this puny two legged, hairless, slow, defenseless hooman as the bully-boss anymore.

Ain't that the truth! And they call animals dumb!