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  #101  
Old 10-24-2009, 09:40 PM
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LOL. No. I kid you not. Not into accupuncture. I just got off on a tangent and couldn't find my way through the confusion of the metaphor I started. And thought....oh well, it's too much trouble to make that come out right. So, I left it.
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  #102  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lolas Dad View Post
Honestly I think that Victoria Stillwell would recommend that the dog be rehomed or put down in those situations where the dog is aggressive. Cesar does not put down dogs for bad behavior or being aggressive.
So... should no dog ever be put down for behavioral issues? Personally, I would MUCH rather a truly human aggressive dog that cannot be rehabilitated be put to rest than live out the rest of their life in a state of shut-down. I truly feel that many of the dogs that CM considers "red zone" cases are not safe, stable, or mentally sound and the last approach I would take to such dogs is one of extreme punishment and supression. Supressing those behaviors does not change them, other than teaching the dog not to display what they are feeling. A dog whose aggression is supressed is a dog that requires constant negative reinforcement, and a dog that is liable to explode at any moment. D: IMHO. I would much rather go ahead and die than live my life not functioning at all and living in so much fear of punishment that I'm no longer myself.

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Did you know that Cesar works with these dogs for hours at a time sometimes days and that what your seeing on TV is only a few minutes of what was actually taped. There is a minimum of 10 hours of tape that is whittled down to 15 minutes of useful footage for the show. So that I am not leaving out any details this was on one of his shows how everything takes hours and what your seeing is a very small part. I'm not defending what he does or doesn't do and I am not saying what he does is right or wrong I am just letting you know that it is Hollywood.
It's also dramatically emphasized on the show how quickly Cesar "cures" dogs of their issues.... on almost every episode I've seen, "elapsed time: 2 minutes 35 seconds" or whatever pops up more than once. It's like we're supposed to be impressed. When, in reality, any one with ANY common sense knows that learned, ingrained behaviors are not going to just vanish into thin air after 2 minutes and 35 seconds of verbal and physical punishment.
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Last edited by ihartgonzo; 10-25-2009 at 12:57 AM. Reason: quoted the wrong post... LAWD HELP ME!
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  #103  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
So... should no dog ever be put down for behavioral issues? Personally, I would MUCH rather a truly human aggressive dog that cannot be rehabilitated be put to rest than live out the rest of their life in a state of shut-down. I truly feel that many of the dogs that CM considers "red zone" cases are not safe, stable, or mentally sound and the last approach I would take to such dogs is one of extreme punishment and supression. Supressing those behaviors does not change them, other than teaching the dog not to display what they are feeling. A dog whose aggression is supressed is a dog that requires constant negative reinforcement, and a dog that is liable to explode at any moment. D: IMHO. I would much rather go ahead and die than live my life not functioning at all and living in so much fear of punishment that I'm no longer myself.
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There was one episode a dog was put down. From what I remember the dad wasn't following what Victoria had taught him. Basically setting up the dog to fail.
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  #104  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:57 AM
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Edited.
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  #105  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:29 PM
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So... should no dog ever be put down for behavioral issues?
We do not put down humans for bad behaviors and the death penalty in this country is being reversed in a lot of states. So why put down a dog for behavioral issues?. Why not just make sure the dog is with the right type of owner. Perhaps you have never heard of Dogtown.
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  #106  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:36 PM
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LD.. there are dogs that are very unbalanced.. I hope you never meet one. We leave people locked up because they are dangerous. So yes you could leave a seriously unbalanced dog in 'jail' its whole life, or you can set it free.
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  #107  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:38 PM
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LD.. there are dogs that are very unbalanced.. I hope you never meet one. We leave people locked up because they are dangerous. So yes you could leave a seriously unbalanced dog in 'jail' its whole life, or you can set it free.
Ive known some of them.
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  #108  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lolas Dad View Post
We do not put down humans for bad behaviors and the death penalty in this country is being reversed in a lot of states. So why put down a dog for behavioral issues?. Why not just make sure the dog is with the right type of owner. Perhaps you have never heard of Dogtown.
1. dogs are not people.
2. being a really unstable dog isn't really a bowl of cherries for the *dog* either. for a dog, quality of life is everything. if it's not there, why continue to keep the dog alive, whether that lack of quality comes from a health issue or something else.
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  #109  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
1. dogs are not people.
2. being a really unstable dog isn't really a bowl of cherries for the *dog* either. for a dog, quality of life is everything. if it's not there, why continue to keep the dog alive, whether that lack of quality comes from a health issue or something else.
Why not re-home the dog with someone that might be able to change the behavior?.

A good example of what your talking about was on this past Friday's Rescue's ink episode. There was this family that had a pit bull that was aggressive and they kept it locked up in the back yard in a small pen with a tarp for a roof. They gave the dog up voluntarily to Rescue Ink and then Rescue Ink took the dog to a training place for 3 weeks of training. After they got the dog back there was an additional week or tow of training the dog to be non-aggressive. They showed the dog later in the show that the dog totally changed and is now living a happy life with a new owner.

That's just one example and as I said before Cesar will trade dogs with a person if they have a dog that's aggressive. Dogtown rehabs dogs also.

I adopted Lola from an owner who couldn't handle her behavior. She was afraid of other dogs and supposedly did not like kids. The previous owner after seeing Lola after she rehomed her with me said "Lola seems to be a lot happier with you than when she was with me". Today Lola has her CGC and is a therapy dog. Lola could have been put down by the previous owner but she did not do that she found an owner that would be able to retrain her and that's what people should be doing.
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  #110  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolas Dad View Post
We do not put down humans for bad behaviors and the death penalty in this country is being reversed in a lot of states. So why put down a dog for behavioral issues?. Why not just make sure the dog is with the right type of owner. Perhaps you have never heard of Dogtown.
1. Dogs are not equal to people.
2. What causes people to be dangerous and what causes dogs to be dangerous are not the same.
3. One of the big issues with death penalty for people is the justice system does convict innocent people too often. I don't advocate putting dogs down arbitrarily, but if I own the dog, I live with the dog and I am well aware of how dangerous the dog is, then putting him down is not being down without sufficient cause.

We generally don't euth people who are old and ill and have zero quality of life either. Would you suggest we allow dogs to continue their life even though they may have terminal or crippling diseases that prevent them from enjoying their life?
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