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  #121  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:40 AM
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I am going to stick by what I wrote. The point of a debate is to hear all angles of a question. Because i felt strongly about it I said I would ask, I did, and i came back to share what answers I was given. I asked a few close people that I value their opinions and it was pretty much the same as mine. So I will walk away with an agree to disagree.
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  #122  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:46 AM
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I wouldn't play chase or keepaway with a young dog either.

What's that suppose to cause? Oh no! I think Toker is going to kill me one of these days. My Doberman and I played keep away, chase AND tug. And you know Dobermans....there those super dominant, pushy ones that turn on their masters.

How I play chase and keep away is this: First we play tug with a few "gives" and then I toss the toy and tell Toker in my best monster voice with my scariest stomping feet, "I'm gonna get you." And I stomp steathily toward her with my hands out like I'm going to grab her. She spins around and runs the other way, then spins and runs back toward and then right past me, daring me to get the toy. I stomp toward her again. Her front legs are prancing way up high and pouncing like a puppy's and she's bobbing her head all over the place. She is 8 or 9 yrs. old. LOL. When I really want the toy back, I ask her for it. And she gives it to me and we may play tug again. The whole time, she's having a wee of a time, her usual happy, smiley self.
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  #123  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by smkie View Post
THat would not be allowed in ours. I don't know how it was allowed in theirs. WE have to test in a room with many dogs in it, some standing in the middle of hallways, some barking. Your dog is not to even lean over and sniff another dog when passing. WHen I went to Special Olympics there were 4 dogs there beside us, all therapy dogs. How would a therapy dog be allowed in such a situation if he was dog aggressive? I have tested in a room with cats and rabbits too.

We have the party coming up..I love the party they throw for the dogs that represent PFL. It is pretty amazing. A huge room filled with food and people and dogs of all sizes. There are games and contests that include treats...dog aggression is just not allowed. I don't know how a dog aggressive dog would ever pass the test.
um, because he's TRAINED? i suspect that you, at that party with him, would never have known that he's dog aggressive, unless you noticed that his handler is more attentive and watchful with him than those whose dogs love every dog they ever meet. just as most people who see luce don't know she's dog aggressive, because she knows how to behave herself and i don't put her in put her in positions where she'll fire up.

anyway, this is completely tangential and i'll stop now, but i think it's laughable to think that therapy dogs cannot have issues. and indeed, i respect the handlers of dogs who have issues and who have worked through and around them more than i respect people who have always had "perfect" dogs. it requires a lot more of a trainer to have a dog-aggressive dog be successful in a public venue.
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  #124  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:50 AM
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You would honestly chase a young pup? I wouldn't. Not for all the tea in China.


I would not be a responsible person if I took a dog aggressive dog into such a situation. THe dog better have that issue worked out and over with or it should not be there. Just like they won't take food off the floor or be skittish. Victor was a skittish as a dog could come. IT took us a year to work over that issue. Would I call him skittish now? No. Not at all. Just because a dog is once that way does not mean he will forever be that way.
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  #125  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by smkie View Post
You would honestly chase a young pup? I wouldn't. Not for all the tea in China.
JMHO - If the pup elicited the chase game at the appropriate time (i.e. not when I'm calling it to come inside), I would. It's basically playing 'dog games' with them, just like I consider tug of war. It makes them happy when we play "their" games, and then they're more willing to play "my" games (i.e. rally and agility) when the time comes. Of course, playing chase with a puppy at the wrong time is encouraging inappropriate behavior.
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  #126  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:59 AM
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I saw a pit bull a few months ago having a grand old game of chase with his new adopted owners. Around and around the block, in front of cars (heart stopping) and the last I saw, they were still chasing him an hour later. YEah...wonderful game to play with a young dog. Instilled a reliable response here! That pitty was young, about 6 months. IT was obviously a game he had enjoyed with humans before, he was very good at it, from the big grin and skittering feet he was having the time of his life. Hope he didn't get hit. I saw 2 very close calls.
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Side by side on the sofa sat three annoyed dogs and one smug cat
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  #127  
Old 10-17-2009, 10:03 AM
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That is why you work on a recall command. Recall and playing a chasing game with a dog are two seperate things. You never chase a dog when working on recall (I'm sure all would agree with this) but you can play chasing games while not working on recall. Two seperate things and the dog probably would not put those two things together if they were never practiced together.

Just the other day, I played a chase game with Jake. He has so much fun and you can see the joy on his face.
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  #128  
Old 10-17-2009, 10:03 AM
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I play tug of war with Blaze when he is in the mood. He is hardly close to agressive.


heck I even play it witht he cat, she loves it. But she is a meany *looks at her hand, darn scratchs* lol She gets carried away and I have to end the game.

Oh I play chase with Blaze all the time. And I end the game when i want by stopping and calling him back. He would never run away from me. end of story. ou instill a recall on a dog, then use it. have fun playing dog games with your dog.

I even play hide and go seek in the woods as well. I hide out and watch him run in a panic to find me. all the while LMAO.
I should have him taken away.
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  #129  
Old 10-17-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkie View Post
I saw a pit bull a few months ago having a grand old game of chase with his new adopted owners. Around and around the block, in front of cars (heart stopping) and the last I saw, they were still chasing him an hour later. YEah...wonderful game to play with a young dog. Instilled a reliable response here! That pitty was young, about 6 months. IT was obviously a game he had enjoyed with humans before, he was very good at it, from the big grin and skittering feet he was having the time of his life. Hope he didn't get hit. I saw 2 very close calls.
Exactly, the inappropriate time to chase a dog. There are plenty of people who do it the wrong way, hence the scene you witnessed, but it's not a 'fail all' type of game. Plenty of people play it the right way and have an enjoyable 'dog game' to play.
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  #130  
Old 10-17-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkie View Post
I saw a pit bull a few months ago having a grand old game of chase with his new adopted owners. Around and around the block, in front of cars (heart stopping) and the last I saw, they were still chasing him an hour later. YEah...wonderful game to play with a young dog. Instilled a reliable response here! That pitty was young, about 6 months. IT was obviously a game he had enjoyed with humans before, he was very good at it, from the big grin and skittering feet he was having the time of his life. Hope he didn't get hit. I saw 2 very close calls.
That ^^^ it's not a game, that is a dog has little or no training that has escaped and people are chasing it. Yes the dog may think it is wonderful and having a grand time, while the people trying to catch him were in a panic. And it happens all the time as we all know and it is one of the reasons why so many people are afraid to take their dogs off leash.

I absolutely train a chase game with my pups/dogs with very clear rules. I start in a controlled fenced setting and I put in place the rules first. The game is played on my terms, it is started by me and it is ended by me and at any point I can cue the pup/dog to stop and I can take a hold of them or pick them up. Often to give them their release cue for the game to begin again. They love it.

Petie during the game, likes to stalk me from behind, I turn quickly with my arms up and out like I am going to grab him. He is often in a play bow and he runs circles around me, head up, ears touching in the back of his head, front legs spread as he runs and bum tucked..........happy dog playing a game.

There is a massive difference in what I have learned to do when training/playing the 'chase' game and what you described. Yes in the past, I have chased dogs/pups as you described. But then I trained my dogs better and turned it around like so many people do.

It is no different than the tug game or any other training, there is either a gross lack of training or half a$$ed training. When trained correctly, they are a lot of fun to play with your dog, builds a stronger relationship with them and they are a valuable training tool to boot.

And nobody would disagree that these methods/games if trained incorrectly can cause problems or shouldn't be played. But that isn't the fault of the method/game it is the fault of who didn't learn how to train it correctly in the first place and screwed it up.........no different than a lot of things.

Last edited by adojrts; 10-17-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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