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  #31  
Old 09-25-2009, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post


Charlie's breeder has been working with goldens for over 30 years. When I asked her how hard it was to finish a golden with them being so common, she pointed at a beautiful golden and said that it took 184 shows for her to get her three majors. She said that it gets to a point where you are competing against so many dogs, that there will be an entire tier of dogs competing who are all about equal quality. At that stage it all becomes about the handling, the grooming, the impeccable behavior in the ring, who the handler is, etc. when selecting BOB.

Also, I hate how a breeder with crappy dogs can go to a smaller show and enter half a dozen of their crappy dogs, to build a major for one of their crappy dogs to win over. It happens, and it sucks. I really don't like that system of judging.

Both are reasons I am a big fan of competing against a standard, instead of each other.
To be fair they were both 5 point majors, lol. But I think even for 3 points you have to beat 25 or so dogs. They're a really really popular breed at shows here. They have one of the largest entries (so do ridgebacks oddly enough...neither compare to goldens though) Oh and our specials lineup those days had 5 of the top 10 papillons in the country, including the #1 dog. BOB was pretty brutal.
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2009, 01:56 AM
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I see nothing wrong with showing, titleing, and continuing to show a dog you have no intention of breeding. Before Jazz had to be re-homed, I was specialing her, even tho she had health issues that we found, and should not have been bred.
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2009, 01:59 AM
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Also to the OP - This is a case of the pot callling the kettle black. You are mad because someone showed a dog with bad knees, yet acording to your site you are breeding untested, non titled dogs under 2yrs. Hmm....
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  #34  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:06 AM
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i have absolutly no problem with someone showing their dog FOR fun with no intention to breed...

but i cant help wonder what the point of showing a dog with bad knees realy is...
are you expecting the dog to win?! if so that says an awefully horrifying thing about the other dogs your showing against...if a dog with knees bad enough to effect gait can take place...wow...thats all i can say.

i guess for me, showing your dog in confo (whether planning to breed or not) yes it should be fun (and mabe thats why this woman chose to do it) but at the same time, if im showing its to prove that my dog is a good specimine of the breed...
bad knees, i dont care how "pretty" your dog is... should be an automatic disqualification...

one of the reasons i dont like most confo shows is that its a beauty pagent, im all too many its gone from judging dogs against the standard itself to judging which is the prettiest of the given group...pretty is all well and good, if the dog is HEALTHY too...but pretty is also why standards change...many of todays dogs look nothing like they did when this all started, standard changes to suit "todays interpritation" *sigh*

then theres the whole popularity contest going on...
as much as they say they dont, ive seen it happen, judges favoring a specific breed ect...

i think confo shows are a good for some structural feedback, a set of experineced objective eyes to say "well your dogs topline is a little off, or the heads not quite right" ect...but i dont think a confo CH is the do all be all end all....
and showing dogs with obcious issues says to me, wow, what are you expecting to acomplish?

i do feel that dogs should be titled in other feidls...
the OP has earth dogs, in her case titles in that feild would outweigh CH titles form a confo ring...ect.

as for the OP, theres been quite a bit of beratting that i think needs to die back...
theres educating and then theres Beating it to death...
most people WILL shut down with the aproach many have been taking with this op, they get so sick of the belittling they just stop reading it...

now do i agree with the practices...
not nessicarily, i dont like that the op breeds under 2 yrs, i think this is a practice she seraiously needs to look into. I also feel that putting the health testing under scruitny is a good thing, instead of "helth testing" your young dogs (which health tesint gyoung is good) health test at or a little after 2, and wait to breed untill after that. Youd be amazed at how much difference that 6mths-1yr makes in a dog. And if you health test as you say you do BE PROUD of that, put your results up on your website, publish them, you WANT people to know so show them the results...

i do know people here are passionate, bit its certainly crossed a line from attempts to educate to almost flat out name calling.

but thats all for a different thread.
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  #35  
Old 09-25-2009, 02:12 PM
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just to point out.. many health tests aren't that conclusive at 2. You need to wait, or at least continue to test as your dogs get older. (then there are some tests like BAER that can be done very young and are accurate)
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  #36  
Old 09-25-2009, 03:06 PM
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Dekka, what do you think of Pennhip done at 16 weeks (I think)?




I don't trust a dog to do anything that it wasn't bred to do... I don't expect a dog bred for show to do anything but be an easy pet and look *pretty* (that's subjective lol) but it seems that many can't even be that.

I used to be all indignant that show lines exist but not anymore. They're a good thing.

Take presas for example. There are more traditional "presa" lines and then there are "dogo" lines, and I will make a generalization that these dogos are primarily show lines, or not bred for "work." Now a real presa isn't for the inexperienced, uninformed dog owner. Most people just want the idea of a presa. These "dogos" or show line dogs in general, act as a buffer, they fill the niche for someone ignorant enough to buy one. If you manage to track down a breeder of quality presas and obtain one you are probably ready for one As long as the dogo breeders are decent breeders of dogs (ie, they may not breed for the real presa temperament but have healthy stable dogs) then we get people happy with their dogo, who never have a use for an actual presa and thus will never discover that their dog doesn't have proper temperament. We keep big cropped brindle dogs off the news, because no one is "over dogged." To use a border collie example, if you somehow manage to buy a showline dog to work your sheep that means you didn't do your research in the first place. A joe-blow model and then a authentic one. Perfect

Well not really lol, but it's better than people who don't know crap actually getting their hands on a real presa that is bred to bite things and hold on, or a border collie that is meant to herd sheep all day. I know, I know, people shouldn't buy a border collie if that can't handle that. Good luck convincing people of this, lol. You know how they say "set your dog up for success" well with this method we set both the general public and the breed up for success.

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  #37  
Old 09-25-2009, 03:13 PM
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absolutly agree dekka, tests should be repeated regularly throughout the dogs life.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:15 AM
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I don't like shows, some breeds are being destroy by them.
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by iibao View Post
I don't like shows, some breeds are being destroy by them.
Breeds are not destroyed by showing. They are destroyed by greedy breeders. It doesn't matter whether they are greedy for ribbons, greedy for "easy cash" (like puppymillers), or someone who is greedy blind to their own dog's faults beyond "He/she's such a wonderful pet with a wonderful temperament, it would be a crime not to let him/her have puppies!".

It's when people breed reasons contrary to the betterment of the breed. At least most show line golden retrievers (the ones I have met) have correct temperaments. Back yard breeders and puppymills are ruining that breed.

With any breeder, breeding away from correct functional conformation, working ability, good health and temperament is a detriment to whatever breed they are working.
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2009, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mmorlino View Post
Didn't really know where to put this... Move it if there's a better place :-)

I went to a dog show last weekend and watched. There were many beautiful dachshunds. The one who won was clearly the best conformation wise - very beautiful! (wish I had a pic!)

But it has noticeably bad patellas. I mean, you could see the way it walked, it's feet were crossing in front of eachother. I swear if I listened closely enough I could ear the knees popping.

I went up to the handler (who was also the breeder) afterwards and asked if the dog (an English Cream male) had patella issues, and she said he did.



What a shame! As of right now, we are not required to show our clearances in shows. (is it different for other breeds?) That dog, however pretty he might be, should not be bred.

Such a shame... There are so many wonderful show dogs out there there are passing on their poor health (sure, they may look pretty, but can they function?) and the breeders just don't give a crap. They want to win, win, win!

That's my vent - thanks for listening!
Its been a long time since I was dragged on the dog show circuit as a kid. But it was always my understanding that the dog had to be sound . . . that's part of conformation. And that it had to move correctly . . . it sounds like this dog wasn't moving right, and therefore should not have been put up. Of course, maybe things have changed. Or no one really cares any more. Or perhaps knows how a dog is supposed to move.
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