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Old 09-24-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default Vent (about showing)

Didn't really know where to put this... Move it if there's a better place :-)

I went to a dog show last weekend and watched. There were many beautiful dachshunds. The one who won was clearly the best conformation wise - very beautiful! (wish I had a pic!)

But it has noticeably bad patellas. I mean, you could see the way it walked, it's feet were crossing in front of eachother. I swear if I listened closely enough I could ear the knees popping.

I went up to the handler (who was also the breeder) afterwards and asked if the dog (an English Cream male) had patella issues, and she said he did.



What a shame! As of right now, we are not required to show our clearances in shows. (is it different for other breeds?) That dog, however pretty he might be, should not be bred.

Such a shame... There are so many wonderful show dogs out there there are passing on their poor health (sure, they may look pretty, but can they function?) and the breeders just don't give a crap. They want to win, win, win!

That's my vent - thanks for listening!
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:49 PM
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your vent is shared by many here... which is why we are so pro health testing, and continued health testing as our dogs get older.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
your vent is shared by many here... which is why we are so pro health testing, and continued health testing as our dogs get older.
and the genetic health of the dog is one of the many reasons people on this board choose to wait till the dog is at least two years old to breed.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:11 PM
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Sadly, seeing dogs in the show ring with health problems is not unusual.

That is, as was stated, why we so strongly feel that breeders should always health test and shouldn't breed at a young age - even at two, a lot of issues don't show up yet.

It's also why some of us are very pro performance titles. A dog with patella problems is going to be limited in his ability to perform.

People who buy from breeders who lack sufficient proof of health and ability only reinforce poor breeding practices.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:18 PM
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Makes you wonder what " show quality " means . Buyers beware !
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:05 PM
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And this is why the TOTAL package is important, and why dogs shouldn't be bred before they're 2 years old. Most health issues show up after the dog is two, anyway.
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:18 PM
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this is why i also dont worry too much about confo showing when looking for a breeder, i like to know the dogs been around a ring a few times to know that he looks like he should...but i much prefer to see titles (or in the case of companion breeds, CGC, therapy dog training and work ect, either way i think the dog should be good at whatever the dog was bred to do...if i wanted a hearding dog id buy from someone who does hearding with their dogs, same if i wanted a gun dog, ect...) and health testing is hugely important.
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbatd View Post
Makes you wonder what " show quality " means . Buyers beware !
No wondering..."show quality" means the dog's size, coloring, coat, etc are in keeping with the standard. Nothing more.

Yup, absolutely Buyer Beware.
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:43 PM
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Breeds still bred to work are required to meet the working standard.
OFten the standard will state serious fault for any dog that lacks this or that - that would interfere with it ability to do work.
Not all judges breed working dogs yet they often judge them- counter productive.

So not all shows, venues or judges are created equal . Same applies for working events.
It it is the overhall consistant breeders that make a difference
.

Dogs need to meet the standard thus novice breeders ( most are not born with a ability of knowing comformation faults that can and will lead to health issues) need to learn.
Yes in many cases you learn what NOT to do vs to do. But staying at home and just breeding dogs wont help most. I would never give up the time I spent in the trenches going to many shows. I met and networked with great people, I learned allot. I saw very good things as well as bad. Most important I learned about other breeds and how not to make the same mistakes they did.

Dog shows are very important to novice breeders who lack mentors.
Even experts get a chance to see new lines - meet prospect buyers or in some cases tell them this breed is NOT for them. Nothing better than in person vs tel or online.
Does every dog shown have a serious fault NOT most do NOT.
Since eventurally the rotation will get you under a expert that will DQ the dog.
(unless it has became a accepted standard which is sad but indicative of that breed NOT all dog shows)
Dogs need to meet the written standard - must be shown to qualify a working dog not win. They need to be worked and temperament tested as well as any health related issues.

FCI judges will make you run to your drop. They dont do fancy dancy patterns and want to make you RUN , move , speed up cause they know u can hide faults by moving too slow ot too fast. They also prefer FREE stacking vs hand stacking cause hand stacking can hide faults as well.

I require OFA or PH, a real TT CGC and or TT ATTS and a FCI rating of a expert of Excellent of Very good . Especially if I cant see the dog I want the FCI CASD expert written critiques. So I can match the dog up for faults and good points.

Working vs showing has been a long Hatfield vs another fued.
And you can find faults and issues with both sides.
Ive seen dogs with hip surgeries win and compete in both show and Protection.
And based on the massive titles these dogs got they bred the hell out of them.

As breeders we should breed a titled dog but also not ignore the NON titled dog that is working as a predator dog.I would want a pedigree of long lived working dogs NO titles which can reflect money and politics as well as the paid training.
Then I would take that no body WORK um and BEAT all the show dogs with a working dog.
Which I have done and boy the show breeders hated me.
But as long as the breeders understand their motives and stick to guns they can and will do as much good as the bad.
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2009, 02:55 PM
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Also keep in mind that dogs being shown are not always going to be bred, especially males.

Where was the show held? Was it an AKC event?
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