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  #11  
Old 09-20-2009, 06:20 PM
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I read it all! I think a bc could be great! Have you spent much time around them at all? I tend to find if you're around them you'll figure out pretty quickly if they're the breed for you or not. They're very unique dogs.

There are a TON of bcs in rescue simply for the fact that they're bcs. That said I'm pretty sure when I finally get my bc in a few years, it'll be a breeder dog. Ether route is a good one.

definitely check out the border collie boards. Great resource and I've been lurking there for a long time sans bc so they're very open to newbies and prospective owners.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2009, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Crowsfeet View Post
Thank you for the heads up Laurelin, this is something I haven't thought about. I feel like I know about 'dog politics' in general, but maybe not for particular breeds.

I do feel like I know a beginner's amount of Aussie Politics, however.
..Do you mean, for example, if you breed two Merle Australian Shepherds, it could be lethal to some of the puppies? Those types of politics?
Not really. Border collies are very very split between types. The ABCA (american border collie parent club) was very much against the breed being recognized by the AKC. They fought this tooth and nail but there was a smaller group that created the BCSA (?) which is the AKC parent club.

Dog Wars is a great read on that subject.

There are three types of bcs being produced out there (other than just plain badly bred)- conformation dogs, sports dogs, and working dogs. There are some overlap between conf and sport and a tiny bit with the working dogs. The working breeders strongly disagree with border collies being shown. They believe border collies to be a working breed, not a show breed or a sport breed. Therefore the only way they believe to test a border collies breed ability is through stock work. (actual work or generally USBCHA Open trials, not AKC herding tests or the like). They vehemently oppose the showing of the border collie in conformation. The conformation breeders are going for a specific look. Their dogs are the most distinct dogs visually in that the conf lines look vastly different than working/sports lines. They're shorter back, domed heads, heavier boned, heavy coats. Most conf border collies come from ANKC (australian) show lines which have diverged from the working lines long ago. Sports breeders will often breed for agility and flyball or the like. Some breeders try to do the 'all around' thing by dabbling in a bit of this and that.

You'll hear terms like 'Barbie Collie' slung around or 'sporter collie'. This all happened so recently that its very much a sore spot. The conflict is still going on over which type is actually a 'border collie'.

It's not so much an issue if you go through rescue but if you go through breeders you will need to decide what type of breeder you want and agree with.

I'm trying to stay informative and not getting into my own opinions because I believe it's very important to form them yourself. I didn't form mine no matter what anyone on either side said until I did my own research. Border collies are kind of special in that they are still used for their original purpose unlike many breeds. That's the driving force behind this debate.
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  #13  
Old 09-20-2009, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Border collies are kind of special in that they are still used for their original purpose unlike many breeds. That's the driving force behind this debate.
That is very special, and I think that's very attractive in a dog's breed. I feel like that's an idea I might be able to keep in circulation, and I feel like my boyfriend would respect the same.

And you probably know, but you're welcome to share information and opinion alike. I'm always interested in hearing both, I usually feel like this helps me in better scrutinizing on my own opinions. .. Though I might have to build those opinions first, before I scrutinize them Either way works - at any rate, very informative. Oh, and of course, thanks for reading it all! Ha.

I wonder if Dog Wars is at the city library.
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2009, 07:25 PM
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So, it currently looks like the lean is toward BCs. We both agreed we would rather have a 'pet quality' working dog(if possible?). Not only are they preferable for our circumstances, but we probably won't be showing any time soon(and by that, I mean never). I also believe my dog was from working lines, so I feel as though I have an idea of what working dogs are like.

So, we're looking for a sharp dog with high drive and high training ability. A dog that could possibly go on week-long hiking trips in various climates, with frequent bouts of various physical activities. Strong mental stamina with the ability to learn a myriad of tricks is also in the mix.
I would say a Border Collie is a fit. But don't rule out the other breeds, too, just because I say a Border Collie would fit.

Yes, you can get a pet 'quality' dog from working lines. It would either be a dog that didn't have enough drive/instinct to work on a farm everyday or one that didn't make it as a herding trial dog. It doesn't mean ANYTHING about the personality though. As most of that is based on how much instinct they have for stock. Also, there is no reason why you can't get a working bred BC pup that is NOT pet quality and compete in other sports.

The main problem people have with 'sport' or 'confo' Border Collies is that they are BRED for that. Most working BC people have no problems selling to a sport home if they don't plan to breed. Some of these working BC people even do agility/ob/whatever with their dogs. But they do not breed for these things, as breeding a sound working border collie will usually mean they have what it takes to be a top notch Agility or Ob dog.

Like Laur said, before getting your Border Collie, do research on the split.

If you haven't noticed already, I'm very much for keeping my breed to it's original purpose. I've seen the two different types, and if it wasn't but for looks, I like the working bred look better. It's much more unique. I don't want to sway your opinion just because of looks, as that seems low of me. But you wanted opinions, lol.

What age dog are you looking for?

Laur, what happened recently?
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2009, 07:37 PM
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Laur, what happened recently?
What do you mean? *is confused*
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  #16  
Old 09-20-2009, 08:28 PM
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You'll hear terms like 'Barbie Collie' slung around or 'sporter collie'. This all happened so recently that its very much a sore spot.
That.
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2009, 08:32 PM
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That.
Oh, I just don't like the terms as I think they come a bit snide. Show and sport collie people HATE those terms. I won't use them, instead I'll always use conformation or sport bred collie. Just personal opinion. I try to keep peace with my conformation collie friends too.

I mean the whole split/AKC thing is fairly recent so the animosity is still there.
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:35 PM
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Oh okay. I don't use the term much, either, even though I don't agree with what they are doing.
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2009, 08:42 PM
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Tara Aussies are good ones; I've talked a bit with Kristin. She is just starting out but she's got great mentors. She's on Aussie Board as well.

Female Aussies are a bit finer boned than the males if that's what he's looking for, but not quite like BC's.
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2009, 08:45 PM
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Oh okay. I don't use the term much, either, even though I don't agree with what they are doing.
I have a couple of friends that are into show/sport bcs. They know my opinions on it and I know theirs and we keep it to that. They're good people though just we don't agree on that issue.
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