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  #41  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:23 AM
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Lol no offense meant! You probably would have known something was up when you talked to her. A person who is on the money with their dogs will sound like it.

So what is your distance range here, are you looking just in Ontario? Whereabouts are you, can I look within driving distance in the states? Taking dogs through the border isn't difficult. Shipping within North America will run you 3-4 bills.

Here is what I'm doing and this will help you: instead of looking for breeders, look for dogs. Look through the Schutzhund trial results from the Ontario Regionals, USA Nationals, Canadian Nationals, then start googling names and see what you come up with. Some people will just be hobbyists, some will actually breed. Either way if they get to that point you know they have at least something going on. Call your local Schutzhund club and talk to them, they'll know of breeders. Many good breeders don't have a website because they are intimate with the biz and other people in the biz will buy their dogs... they don't need to sell to you or me.

Look for people who sell dogs as dual purpose police k9's... these dogs are (usually) the epitomy of a working GSD. And even then... see if you can find the police department's website, they often have a site with a k9 section, and check out their other dogs. Some small, local police departments don't know anything about dogs and and tricked into buying crappers like everyone else, giving crapper breeder a chance to brag about have a dog working in a police department.

YouTube - Police Dog Fail <---- EMBARRASSINGGGG

Someone who breeds specifically for police dogs will only produce a few police dogs per litter (if they're lucky)... the rest are a little soft, not driven enough, etc, but are still good as pets, low level Schutzhund competitiors, even high level Schutzhund dogs. And these are breeders who set their sights HIGH. No breeder constantly produces the exact dog they strive for, there is a spectrum. Someone who just breeds "pets" or "family guardians," what does their spectrum look like? What does their best look like, what does their worst look like?

I'm not saying these criteria make a good breeder but they are some indicators:
Both dogs and bitches have Sch titles and hip ratings. You know how North America has to import dogs? Europe isn't importing our dogs lol. Well to breed under SV (German GSD club) rules both dog and bitch must have Sch titles and hip checks. Coincidence that their dogs are consistantly better? I don't think so... So look for a breeder with high standards.
Look for websites that discuss the pedigrees of their dogs
Adult imported dogs with titles are a good sign.
If a dog has a FAULT like weighing 110lbs the breeder won't be boasting about it-- because whether big dogs look cool or not they are NOT ideal for working and that is a FAULT in the GSD breed. I wouldn't totally write a breeder off for having a single, very qualified oversized dog in their program, but it shouldn't be a trend.

You want an agile dog for agility and maybe Sch, correct? So you're looking for a smallish dog.

This is mine.




I'm not trying to brag- he isn't perfect, he's too tall, for one. But notice that he has a slim build, and that he can jump. Even if a big dog can do it... each time he jumps down there's that much more weight pounding on his joints (hence why I try and prevent him from doing it)
Watch this video, these are malinois and they are the pinnacle of athletic dogs:YouTube - malinois in china
Malinois are often said to hit harder during bitework because they are going so much faster when they jump for the decoy. These are 60lb 23" dogs or thereabouts.
Look at border collies playing frisbee and doing agility. They really get air!
None of these dogs have hulky builds. You want some smallish, quick, light and driven for agility, and that same dog will work for Schutzhund provided it has courage and the right drives.
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  #42  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:27 AM
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:37 AM
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Jinopo is a good kennel- in the Czech republic

Leerburg.com Discussion Forum: Greetings, new member interested in czech gsd
Here is what a Leerburg member has to say on it:
Quote:
I just bought a dog from Jiri at Jinopo Kennels in the Czech Republic and have studied the bloodlines extensively, so I can offer a little insight on a few questions:

The Pohranicni Straze Kennels is still run by the Czech Government/Border Patrol and is not and never has been, privately owned. Jiri Novotny was the director of ZPS for 21 years (As well as a Border Patrol Officer/Police) and made all the decisions regarding litters, evaluations, on hundreds of dogs, if not more. He has a TON of experience and a background that few people have been lucky enough to have been exposed to.

ZPS dogs were known as very hard, real life service dogs that were used extensively protecting the Former East Germany (DDR) and Czech Borders. Also, it was no accident that a lot of DDR dogs influenced the line or were brought into the bloodline as needed or wanted. Look at the pedigrees......

Since Jiri left ZPS in 2001 the quality of the dogs produced from that kennel have not been very good, at least not as good as when he was there as the director. The name has changed as well to "Od Policie Ceske Republiky".

To have a dog from the ZPS kennel, which the dog would have to be at least 6 years old now, is a desirable dog to have indeed if you like Czech dogs. You had to have a very good Stud Dog or Bitch to breed with one of the ZPS dogs and then get a puppy out of that kennel name.

If I remember correctly, Chasinta ZPS was imported by JC Weber out of Florida and is a beautiful black sable with a SVV1 title.

You should feel so lucky to get a dog like that the way you did, I wish you the best of luck with her in the future.

Art Lavely
Remember me telling you about the government of former Czechoslovakia breeding dogs? Well what you have there is the man that ran the Czech gov't kennel breeding dogs.

Izzy, the hip checks are 0/0, which means left hip gets an "a" or "excellent rating" and the right hip gets an "a" or "excellent" rating. They have good hips lol

The dark pigment thing. Rich dark pigment is desirable and is common throughout working lines. Jinopo isn't compromising working ability.

My dog's dam is a Pohranici Straze dog, I believe she was produced when Jiri was still there, but now I'm going to check.

I should add the IPO can substitute for Sch, as well as those wierd Czech "ZVV" titles (I think I remember hearing they are a tougher title to get?)... dogs at that kennel aren't titled the highest they could be... but honestly, after running the Czech gov't kennels for 21 years do you think the guy needs a judge verifying what he's seeing in a dog? I'm not saying a second opinion is unnecessary and for 99% of other breeders I would expect to see level 3 whatever on their studs, but I'm just saying, in this case, you can probably let it slip

Last edited by Xandra; 09-18-2009 at 01:47 AM.
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  #44  
Old 09-18-2009, 02:09 AM
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  #45  
Old 09-18-2009, 07:41 AM
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while I didn't read most of the last two web sites,,(pressed for time here),,just wanted to comment on them..

The Jinopo dogs are czech/slovakian,,I have those bloodlines in my female..they are ALOT of dog, (not a bad thing but I would not put them into first time gsd owner hands).

Czech dogs have alot of defense drive, (again not a bad thing if you know what your doing)...They are NOT couch potatoes by any means and need a job, a constant job)


The other site,,while I don't really see any pedigrees at all, and no ofa/ovc numbers, the one thing I DO like about some of her dogs is they seem to be able to get out in the big wide world with no problems,,therapy, obedience,

Since I am partial to those czech dogs, I like Merlin on her site, but not a fan of west german dogs,,(just my thing)...
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  #46  
Old 09-18-2009, 07:42 AM
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and no I'm not a fan of breeding for coat color/size...my first priorities are health and temperament :
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  #47  
Old 09-18-2009, 07:58 AM
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I don't think I'd recommend one of those Czech dogs for a 1st time GSD owner either, but I like them!

I'm not sure, but I've been told the Czech lines are slower to mature, and because they are from border patrol lines, are very defensive which can be harder to manage.

For this person, I'd look for a local/regional breeder who is producing healthy dogs with the right temperament and breed traits. You get a dog like that, you can do pretty much anything with it- bite sports, agility, obedience. It might not be a man stopper but not many people need that in real life.
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  #48  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:57 AM
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In the cold, my Dobes stay inside except to use the bathroom. They all seem to hate the cold. We have to MAKE them go out to potty. Thats when I do sometimes wish they had a thicker coat. In your climate, I would go with the GSD. We had one years ago, who lived outside and even in the summers here in Alabama he did fine. He had lots of shade to lie in also.
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  #49  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:20 AM
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heres on my my fave GSD breeders
(Working German Shepherd Breeder in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )

hope it helps, he is also a member of the germanshepherd.com forum, if you do choose the GSD thats a great place to start
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  #50  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
heres on my my fave GSD breeders
(Working German Shepherd Breeder in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )

hope it helps, he is also a member of the germanshepherd.com forum, if you do choose the GSD thats a great place to start
Now that is a nice kennel.

I dunno OP, how far are you willing to travel? Cuz I am trying to find one that I like like I like the kennel above in ON and it is sliiimmm pickin's.

lol If you call up a breeder in Europe and tell them you're looking for your first agility dog... I really don't think they would understand. At any rate it's unnecessary to import a dog for thousand's unless you're breeding... maybe a cop or serious serious Schutzhund dog.

Last edited by Xandra; 09-18-2009 at 10:16 AM.
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