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  #21  
Old 09-11-2009, 02:05 PM
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Beanie Beanie is offline
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Honestly, I think your best bet may be to wave the contract at them and threaten, say that you want the dog back, and if they don't give it back you will sue... offer to refund their purchase price to them in return for the voided contract.
It's called bluffing. No, your contract won't hold up in court. But if you threaten them AND then offer money for the dog AGAIN they may bend.

If they don't, I think you are sadly out of luck.
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  #22  
Old 09-21-2009, 06:17 PM
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Just wondering how things are going.
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  #23  
Old 09-21-2009, 06:39 PM
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Ah the joys of on line selling and buying !
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  #24  
Old 09-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Thracian Thracian is offline
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I agree with Beanie. Make a good show about taking them to court and you might get him back. Good luck!
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  #25  
Old 09-21-2009, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currywoodcollies View Post
The vet told me they are never late on their vaccines and they do put their dogs through seizure alert dog training if that is what they intend to do with the dog. This dog was put through training and did well, but he was never housebroken or socialized so he does not do well indoors (in retail environments).
Just to clarify something for you, because they may have fed the vet some bull.

You can't train a dog to alert to seizures. Nobody knows if they pick up on a smell, or some subtle body language cues, or electrical stuff going wrong in their handlers brain or what....and since we don't know what cue they are picking up, they can't be trained to detect/alert seizures.

Any dog that is a seizure alert dog, does his job by choice. All you can do with training one is to get a good prospect, train it for public access, and hope that he will be one of the special ones that will alert. If not, you've got a great pet that could possibly be trained to assist someone else with a different disability. If he wasn't trained for public access, he wasn't trained, period. That goes for any of the "prospects" he is producing as well.

If their dog can't even go out in public places without controlling his bowels, and the only thing she has him for is seizure alert, then he is not a trained service dog. I would almost want to challenge them on it, and see if they can produce any training records through any facilities where he might have been taken for basic obedience or something. Because if not, she may have lied to you (and her vet) about that. Regardless of whether or not she is disabled, he isn't a service dog because he isn't trained to do anything that mitigates her disability. And if she can't demonstrate that training, then well, yeah...
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  #26  
Old 09-22-2009, 02:24 AM
Gguevara Gguevara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Honestly, I think your best bet may be to wave the contract at them and threaten, say that you want the dog back, and if they don't give it back you will sue... offer to refund their purchase price to them in return for the voided contract.
It's called bluffing. No, your contract won't hold up in court. But if you threaten them AND then offer money for the dog AGAIN they may bend.

If they don't, I think you are sadly out of luck.
This.
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I guess there was nothing in your contract about breeding at a certain age? As in breeding after he's two, had health clearances?? IF there is, you may be able to get them on that,,since he's only 1.5 years old...
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2009, 01:24 PM
duncan15 duncan15 is offline
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I guess there was nothing in your contract about breeding at a certain age? As in breeding after he's two, had health clearances?? IF there is, you may be able to get them on that,,since he's only 1.5 years old...
The op probably wouldn't care about this, seeing as how she bred her male when he was not even a year old.

Op, i hope you keep reading this thread. and this post.

first off, you are not doing the needed health testing. There are no scores on your site. Getting your dog evaluated by a vet, and them saying whether or not they are healthy is not health testing. You actually have to pay more money for the appropriate tests to evaluate your dogs health, and If you are doing said testing, you should be posting that on your site.

You bred your male to your female when he was not even a year old. that is seriously awful, and not something an ethical breeder would ever do. You are also only breeding your male and your female together. You arent looking at other studs for your bitch, or vice versa to try and expand your line and make it better. You love your two dogs, that much i get, but that is not reason enough for those two to have puppies.

You don't show, normally, sign of a bad breeder. But you breed collies, so i give you a pass on that. What i don't give you a pass on is that it seems you do very little working with your own dogs. I know many herding breeders, who do not show conformation. but they sure as heck show in working trials, do herding and agility and other dog sports. They dont just love it when their pup ends up in a home that works, they Make it happen. They dont sell a pup to anyone who doesnt work the dog. Again, if you do some sort of working sport, then why wouldnt it be on your site? It is easy, and fairly inexpensive to go to agility and herding trials, and the fact that you can't even do that, really tells me how devoted you are to the bettering of the breed, and how much the dollar signs really matter to you.

You say you got your 2 dogs from good breeders. Have they not been helping you? Do you not ask them about breeding everyday? Are they actively involved with the dogs they sold you? If not, then you probably did not get your dogs from as good a breeder as you thought. i have a hard time buying that you happen to do all the wrong things, ethically, when it comes to breeding, but did get your dogs from great breeders. Great breeders would be trying to get their dogs back from you.

And just a piece of outsider advice. your website is horrible. it looks cheap and extremely unprofessional. Your personal info is way more than i needed to know. And i am laughing wondering how many shots it took to get the main one of you with your dog. People looking for a dog, especially a collie, do not care how pretty you are, so you can save the glamor shots for those that care. All it really gave me was the info i needed to know that you really don't know what you are doing.

Quote:
I knew I would get judged by this and I don't mind it and yes, I need the criticism. I made a mistake 1 1/2 years ago and I have learned from it. I am going to try to contact animal control. I said I do not think I will have any luck. If not, then what can I do about it? They have had the dog for 1 1/2 years. I did look into her. I even visited her veterinarian. He was the one that tested the puppies' eyes. The vet told me they are never late on their vaccines and they do put their dogs through seizure alert dog training if that is what they intend to do with the dog. This dog was put through training and did well, but he was never housebroken or socialized so he does not do well indoors (in retail environments). I have had my dogs health tested. Both are normal eyed and have good hips. Neither have red mange in their pedigrees. I am not someone who just threw two dogs together. They are my dogs and they go and do everything with me. They are not just breeding dogs.
I have mentioned buying the dog back and they won't have it. I have not brought up the contract because I was waiting on evidence. I found the complaint board today. So a lot of this is new info to me. She sends me pics regularly and emails me when he gets back form the vet everytime. My main concern is the environment he is in and with the mother (she is the one I have bad blood with). My other concern is the quality dog she is breeding him with, but there really is nothing I can do about that. I have never been to her home and have never been invited. I am going to talk them into inviting me to let me "visit" the dog. If the home and the dog are in bad conditions then I will bring up the contract. Hopefully some poeple on here are right and that will scare them into giving him back.

As I said before, I have learned from this and I have started screening potential buyers. I have not had any problems out of anyone else.
Now you will start screening? If you knew anything at all, that would have been your first concern when you started breeding (besides the health of the dogs being bred of course). I doubt you even have homes for you next liter (the one you are accepting deposits on, but dont have a price for yet). Im glad that you felt the need to lower your price from 1000/pup to 600/dog.

Quote:
I would prefer for my puppies to be sold as pets only. I may accept small hobby breeders or those who breed therapy dogs or working dogs.
My Babies:
This contradicts everything you have said on this thread.

Im sorry if i went a little offtopic (and that is all i will apologize for), but i saw your website and was seriously livid that you could think that you are a judge of where this dog should or should not live. You brought the pup into this world, and it is your fault he is where he is today. Yet when we say, call animal control, all you say is "oh i live in Louisiana, they just ignore me". im sorry but that is bs. if you really cared, youd do everything you could, no matter how little or useless it seemed. I really think you need to re-examine your role in this world as a "young hobby breeder" (your words not mine).

Also, it is appalling that you are a "breeder" and know so little, not only about breeding, but about dogs. Francesca is completely right about service dogs, and the training they receive. Anyone can get a jacket for their dog and say he is a service dog, but that doesn't make it so. The fact that you didnt know that leads me to believe that you are as closeminded as you come across
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2009, 02:14 PM
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Spiritwind Spiritwind is offline
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Originally Posted by currywoodcollies View Post
My collies had their first litter of puppies on Valentine's day of 2008. I had a lady email me way before I even bred them wanting a male collie. She told me he was going to be used as a seizure alert dog and MAY be bred for seizure alert dogs. Well, he is now just a stud and nothing more. Everytime I see him (in person or in pics) he looks scared to death. I found a thread about this woman on Complaintsboard.com. I have never been to this woman's home, but according to this board, it is disgusting. I have recently learned that she never lets her puppies or maltese outside. They are able to use the bathroom in the house. She keeps puppy pads everywhere and the puppies and dogs are hit and miss. I had a very long discussion/argument with her about how she should not breed her dog every heat. I hope she is not going to. Her collie just had puppies in April and she is in heat now. I have been looking her up online and she has apparantly used many different names and has many different kennel names as well. I do not think I have enough evidence that she is harming my dog, but I really want to take him back. This lady has mental problems and does suffer from seizures. She is 36 and lives with her mother. I should truly be angry with her mother.. and I guess I am. I looked for 2 years for my collies. I made sure I picked two that were healthy, beautiful, and had great temperaments. They also have good pedigrees and come from very reputable breeders. I feel horrible that I sold this dog to her and now she is undoing all of the hard work that those breeders and I did in choosing a good pair of collies. Her female is very far from breed standard and is not what you would call a "healthy" collie. She did not have this female when I sold my collie to her. What can I do to get my collie back? Do I have grounds to do so?

Hello,

I know I am late in posting about this, but I just joined this group and found this thread.

First I have had Collies for 15 yrs, showing and on occasion breeding. I know of this person who you sold a dog too. NO reputable breeder I know would ever sell her a dog (and trust me she has tried a lot over the last few years!). She tried to buy one from me a couple years ago, and I flat out told her she would not be getting a dog from me!.

I have talked to this person before, via e-mail, and found her to not be able to take care of her dogs properly. As you said in one of your other posts, she does seem to have some mental issue plus seizures. She has had about 5 different kennel names, breeding bitches every season, to whatever stud dog she gets. I know she breeds under the name of Moonbeam Collies right now. Or she was. Back in September she joined one of the collie breeder e-mail lists, and several long time reputable breeders TRIED to give her advice and encourage her to breed the RIGHT way, and because no one agreed with her, she left the list.. and now it appears her website is deleted. She'll probably have another website with a new kennel name before to long. She pops up every once in a while on the Collie lists.. at one point she was using "Royal Misty Creek Collies" as her kennel name.

If you are able to get your dog back from her, I would try to the best of your ability, however if it is not possible, just use it as a learning experience, and remember to screen homes before allowing anyone to purchase a puppy from you. Been them show or pet homes. Also NEVER EVER let a dog go to a new home with breeding rights, unless its to a REPUTABLE show breeder. You don't want more of your dogs to end up in the hands of this person.

Also... as far as your own dogs go. I viewed your website, and your dogs look to be happy, healthy and well cared for. But as far as show/breeding quality goes. I do not feel they are breeding quality.

It appears normal eyes are the only things you can credit to your dogs. Normal eyes, while great, just because a dog is normal eyed, does not mean it is of breeding quality. No other health tests, no showing (in any event -- though I don't personally see them as show quality for conf shows).... they really appear to be pet quality, as do their pedigrees, the dogs in your dogs pedigrees are back-yard bred dogs (I know of some of the dogs behind yours! I research pedigrees often and have ran into very similar pedigrees before!).

Collies are great dogs, but there are more than enough pets out there, there is no reason to purposely breed more pets.... especially from unproven and health tested parents!

If you really want to breed, my suggestion would be to find a good mentor in your area, one that has bred and finished many healthy, well bred champions, and titled dogs. Buy the best dog you can get... and concentrate on that one dog for a few years... in whatever event you want to compete in, to PROVE you are serious to the Collie fancy.

As I said above, I've had Collies for 15yrs. I've done everything from Conformation, to agility and herding with my dogs. Below are some of my dogs.





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  #30  
Old 10-15-2009, 02:43 PM
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Spiritwind Spiritwind is offline
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Also.. sorry, I also had to post this.

I was just looking through your website some more. Through the Collie info section.

You are so completely mistaken on what caused CEA and Micropthalmia.

First, true Micropthalmia is VERY uncommon in the breed. But its not just seen in Collies.

As far as CEA goes, "small" eyes did not cause CEA. That is just plain stupid to even state. This is something people, (who breed pet quality dogs because they are normal eyed), use to justify the reason for breeding their badly bred pets, for the sole purpose of being normal eyed.

CEA has been in the breed for more than 150 years. Probably since the very beginning of the Collie. It was something that was bred into the breed so strongly, that back when CEA was first discovered, about 55-60yrs ago, about 90% of the breed was affected. Oddly enough the eyes on Collies at that time certainly weren't tiny.

While I do agree, some lines have tiny little pig eyes, and this is incorrect... this is not what caused CEA!!
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