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  #41  
Old 09-12-2009, 12:28 PM
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PM just so you know, I don't do sport either. There are many facets of training that cross over between sport and more real life things- even your video showed that. Where in real life is a sleeve used- it's not. But you have to use something to train the dog and see if it has the tools/temperament to do the job you want it to do.

Again, why would I want to come up and take a live bite from your dog? I wouldn't take a live bite from a piece of junk GSD either, it's stupid to even suggest that. Yeah, I'm going to drive 500 miles up there to let your dog bite me? I already said, I know that your dogs are good, so why do you keep pushing it.

You asked me to admit when I'm wrong- I'll gladly do that when I am wrong, and I've done it many times in the past. In the case of the video of the CAS biting, I'll stand by my point that it was crappy bitework. I imagine anyone else on this board who has ever done bite work before will agree with me. I will also stand by my point that the obedience was sloppy. I don't understand why you can't see that. I'm not insulting your personal dogs, I'm making an observation based on my own experience. Don't change the game like Pops said, and say that the CAS has a "natural deep full bite" and then dance around when your video clip shows a dog that is nipping and letting go of the sleeve.

ACampbell- great point- if you want to show your breed to the best of your ability, why post a video of a dog that is not biting well? I'm sure there are better examples out there. Even PM's pic of her own dog biting was good- nice full bite, proper place on the sleeve.
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
Guess you dont visit chat? Sorry my ass is doing fine.
One person wrote tehy were ging to get a GSD and that they wont now.
They like the breed they do not like the competiness posted..

And you cant quote ONE thing wrote calling GSD crap.
And you miss all the great tings I wrote and the fact I had REAL Partners of the GSD variety.

Please by all means PROVE ONE THING WRONG????
I will donate money to chaz rescue if you can prove beyond a doubt anything I said about GSD.
What was this quote- taken from the Guardian Breed thread- supposed to mean?

"Tthus like the GSD if someone runs who is a bad guy they may get a nice nip in the butt. But if a bad guy or a good guy turned bad gets nasty and does NOT run - "

What is the " - " ? You want people to guess what happens? To me, it sounds like you are saying, without putting it into words, that if a person turns on a GSD and confronts him face to face the dog will back down. I know that a lot of GSD's would back down- but a TRUE GSD with proper drive and temperament, will take that guy down hard.

I can show you plenty of videos of dogs chasing down someone running away and not giving them a nip on the butt. How about a full bite on the upper arm or back? Knocking them to the ground?

The GSD will use it's mouth as needed. If a sheep needs a nip, it gets a nip. If it has to take on a stubborn ram, it uses a fuller bite.

It seems like a lot of your "facts" about GSD's are based on conjecture and opinion. If you have all this experience with GSDs then you should know that what you wrote is not true, unless you never worked with good ones.
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2009, 01:29 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Cool

.
A thread is started , questions are asked, a post with many paragraphs are written by me, and you take one sentence and FINISH it for me?

This is your proof.

Here is the thread.Guardian breeds?

Presumptuous; arrogant.

conj.assuming definition as·sum·ing (***601; so***773;***821;o***773;m***8242;i***331;, -syo***773;***821;o***773;m***8242;-)

adjective

taking too much for granted; presumptuous.

PS I made the mistake once by trying to talk drives with you wont happen again you know it all so why bother.

PSS Do you know where I got the herding dogs nip from behind and it can be mistaken for aggression or defense
I testified for a GSD owner whose dog NIPPED a child from behind and was taken to court. The dog was related to the first GSD i loved named King when I was 11. The dog herded the child and nipped grabbed and did not break skin but bruised. The parent ran over screaming at the dog the KID was not screaming but fell and was laughing. The dog BIT the parent.
They wanted the dog PUT down for his " A G B" . The dog never had a issue for this or after for that matter. I and several others including a GSD german breeder from 1966 was there. I learned and I helped.
The GSD was saved thou required to be neutered he lived a long happy life with his owner. When the judge understood that the GSD was herding NOT attacking and that when the parent screamed and ran to the child the dog was protecting the child from the dog.
.
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  #44  
Old 09-12-2009, 01:36 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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[QUOTE=DanL;1459711]PM Don't change the game like Pops said, and say that the CAS has a "natural deep full bite" and then dance around when your video clip shows a dog that is nipping and letting go of the sleeve.


YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.

Never said that you are confusing me with your GSD firend who osted GSD are born with the ability to take full mouth bites.

I posted is is BAD for a LGD to ever commit to a full Mouth bite .

Why it is not good? i posted that too but you dont get it.

Keeping lying .
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  #45  
Old 09-12-2009, 01:48 PM
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Here is the threads when u search "full mouth bite"
Lookey here NOT 1 comment from me another LIE.
U think when u use quotes you world bother to verify I said it.
making a ass out of you and me u have done a great job with

Showing results 1 to 20
Search took 5.77 seconds. Search: Keyword(s): deep full
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 02:36 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By planet molosser
[QUOTE=DanL;1459711]PM Don't change the game...

[QUOTE=DanL;1459711]PM Don't change the game like Pops said, and say that the CAS has a "natural deep full bite" and then dance around when your video clip shows a dog that is nipping and letting go...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:46 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By DanL
What was this quote- taken from the Guardian...

What was this quote- taken from the Guardian Breed thread- supposed to mean?

"Tthus like the GSD if someone runs who is a bad guy they may get a nice nip in the butt. But if a bad guy or a good...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:28 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By DanL
PM just so you know, I don't do sport either....

PM just so you know, I don't do sport either. There are many facets of training that cross over between sport and more real life things- even your video showed that. Where in real life is a sleeve...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:25 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By planet molosser
Guess you dont visit chat? Sorry my ass is doing...

Guess you dont visit chat? Sorry my ass is doing fine.
One person wrote tehy were ging to get a GSD and that they wont now.
They like the breed they do not like the competiness posted..

And you...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:21 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By planet molosser
Again you cant quote one wrong thing or one...

Again you cant quote one wrong thing or one insult I made about the GSD.
And as expected you went into MY I DOG GSD. I did not use MY I dog.
It became about each GSD dogs owned here long ago ....
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:15 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By Pops2
PM you picked this fight in the guardian...

PM
you picked this fight in the guardian thread. you essentially called the GSD crap, said they had no protection instinct & wouldn't take a full bite. now that they are critiqueing your videos you...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 01:01 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By ACampbell0304
Well if all CAS owners are this insulting,...

Well if all CAS owners are this insulting, they'll forever be crossed off my list.

If you're going to compete in a sport like bite-work (schutzhund) as a SPORT (not PP, those are 2 different...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 09:44 AM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By DanL
I'm really starting to think your reading...

I'm really starting to think your reading comprehension isn't all there, either that or you read the parts of my posts that you want to read and make your own summary of it.

Where did I say a TDI...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 09:31 AM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By planet molosser
Point is you play games every weekend u do a...

Point is you play games every weekend u do a sport u may compete.

THIS IS WHAT I WROTE "Dogs that protect from HOME do not PRACTICE on sleeves they do NOt NEED A FULL MOUTH BITE TO stop A INTRUDER
.

And truth me it...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Today, 08:40 AM
Replies: 33 GSD 1936 Germany Video
Views: 353 Posted By DanL
I realize what the sport evolved from, and thank...

I realize what the sport evolved from, and thank you for questioning my intelligence. Way to debate- you don't like what you hear so you start insulting. I'm not talking about a sport- I'm talking...
Forum: The Fire Hydrant Today, 12:57 AM
Replies: 26 Someone stole Hyia's bike
Views: 200 Posted By smkie
Thank you for the thought truly. A couple people...

Thank you for the thought truly. A couple people have offered to help bless their hearts but i think the 10 speed will suffice. We will keep it indoors until i can secure a lock and chain it up the...
Forum: The Dog Breeds Yesterday, 11:58 PM
Replies: 43 Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony
Views: 385 Posted By planet molosser
Dan BOBO was trying to drag the bad guy back to...

Dan BOBO was trying to drag the bad guy back to his owner that what a LGD does they circle BACK to the flock. They do NOT do long sends!!!!

The obedience for a LGD was great that woman in Europe...
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  #46  
Old 09-12-2009, 02:08 PM
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Why doe CASD or LGDS do not take full mouth bites without training?

Answer is COMBAT when fighting in real life not sport .
A ex would be a grizzly bear rear up when dogs goes on on him .
Dog has full mouth bite on left arm of bear.
Bear beheads dog.
LGD should hit bodyhceck bite thrash and drive off predators.
Self preservations exists in wild animals as well as dogs.
In most cases the Bear could EAT the dog but it wants to live and it knows any injury after killing the dog could result infection or lack of the abiity to fight off its own kind and TO hunt and eat.

LGD vs COugar Yep real god for them to grab a leg or any part of a big cat so the cats claws and or fangs rip them to shreads.

Man work Before GUNS were even a thought. Dogs had to protect their humans from bad humans. Now they could hold on to a arm for dear life so the other arm can slice open their neck with a knife or spear them in the heart.

Staying on sleeves is for police dogs for the CONTROL for SPorts dogs for the Sport
All comes down to the notion dogs must protect us but not bite too hard , and we are required today to teach criminals as innocent even if they attack a police officer.

GSDS were created as a war dog a police dog not a sport dog. The concept was control and controlling when who where why and how the dog is to protect.

However LGDS have been doing that for thousands of years.
Before protecting yourself with force was actionable in court.




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  #47  
Old 09-12-2009, 02:10 PM
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This has gotten waaaaay out of hand. Both sides are saying the same thing, but each has their defensive side up and can't see it.

It seems to be PM is saying the CAS will protect to a certain radius and once the thread is gone from that radius, the dog returns to it's guarding and doesn't give chase.

Dan is saying GSD's will give chase and don't restrict themselves to a certain radius.

GSD's are herding dogs with different drives.
CAS are LGD's with different drives.

Why is there such animosity being thrown around? I've not seen anyone lying about anything.
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2009, 02:48 PM
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What you wrote is correct no doubt.
However I have been miss quoted and accused of bashing the GSD.
I have not.
Inaccurate info has been posted about my breed i provide proof it is wrong and more wrong info is posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
This has gotten waaaaay out of hand. Both sides are saying the same thing, but each has their defensive side up and can't see it.

It seems to be PM is saying the CAS will protect to a certain radius and once the thread is gone from that radius, the dog returns to it's guarding and doesn't give chase.

Dan is saying GSD's will give chase and don't restrict themselves to a certain radius.

GSD's are herding dogs with different drives.
CAS are LGD's with different drives.

Why is there such animosity being thrown around? I've not seen anyone lying about anything.
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  #49  
Old 09-12-2009, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post

so breeds can have gaurding tendacies like the rott/gsd but imo unless trained and tested you just never now. _________________________


Well that was sort of an answer (although you still didnt admit that in order to train something the drive has to be there). Honestly you will NEVER know if a dog will protect and how long it will actually stay in a fight when it starts to get serious. No amount of training can ever prepare a dog for a real confrontation. There are so many emotions and signals when you are fearing for your life that cannot be played out during training. Some dogs are just more equipped to deal with the stress of a real beating and adrenaline pumping than others. But then again I only rely on my dogs as a deterrent, and to not have a backup plan other than the dog would be foolish.

And making reference to all these GSD's and how they allow their owner to get raped, and break into the house ect. How many of those GSD's fit the standard for the breed (the working dog standard, as i know many TRY to interpret the standard to their likings)? Also the instict to protect could be there, but not every dog knows how to do that properly or how to fight, to some it comes natural to fight the RIGHT way others need coaching. The good GSD's are definately outweighed by the bad but I think we are talking two completely different breeds. The good and those bred to mesh with society and bred to the needs of those who cannot handle high drive, suspicious, defensive (which in MY breed is NOT a good trait for protection, but is a starting point and depending on the dog it can evolve, much better than prey oriented dogs who have such a high threshold for defense that nothing phases them).

So MY ideal ppd would have moderate/high suspicion (and I mean that in a "he's fully aware of his surroundings and not from a fearful perspective), civil (looks at the man not equiptment) STABLE confident , and active agression (NOT defense) and have a lower threshold for agression (not overly sharp, but i dont want a dog to have to get beat by a 2by4 to realize they arent safe anymore). Also moderate prey drive (NOT high), just enough to make PP training fun, and safe. And that is based on the knowledge I have of MY breed.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
Again you cant quote one wrong thing or one insult I made about the GSD.
And as expected you went into MY I DOG GSD. I did not use MY I dog.
It became about each GSD dogs owned here long ago .
Instead being able to disprove the prey vs defense vs self preservation vs drives.
Everyone went into MY dog can do this and my dog can do that.
yet we all know they do not represent the breed as a whole.

I quoted standard profiles history and GSD people went off thinking every time some said that GSD are not born biting full sleeves and not all GSD are naturally protective, or that they herd and do not take FULL mouth bites of SHeep, and that herding/prey drive can give the impression the dog is biting but in fact they are nipping from behind to move the sheep and some herding dogs will herd anything inc humans.

NOT one negative or completely off base thing you will FIND about GSD I said.
Yet you will find tons of wrong info posted about drives and the CAS fro GSD people and not one opps I was wrong ever posted.

So if you consider correcting wrong info that can cause BSL rude.
Then im VERY RUDE thank you so much. And im in good company here
I have over 44 emails calls pvt messages from chaz members aggreeing with me, thanking me for info.But dont wish to lose friends who own GSD and take every comment personal.
ive asked them not to stick up for me no need too . But I asked moderators to remove he entire thead. They said it should stay. So it must be helping someone.

Truth is the mark of any good breeder is not how well liked they are,
I never said anything about MY dog. If I did it would have read WAYYYY too much defense (at the moment has a chewy bite from his defense drive), lots of prey drive but lacking pocession (will drop sleeve immediately if I didnt run him in a circle. Defense is his "comfort" drive so will use that more than prey. Has a hard time transitioning between drives (which gives him a sh!tty bite whenever the helper becomes too frontal). Also went through a horrendous fear stage (barking and hackling at everyone) but came through it on his own and now he is just a cuddle bug as long as I'm not stressed hes not either (very intuitive to me). Fear stage came from an overload of agression in his pedigree, and didnt know how to handle it. We do SCHUTZHUND. I got him specifically for schutzhund. I have been told he is a breedworthy dog but at this point, if he doesnt gain more confidence in his work (its sufficient but NOT enough for me) and doesnt develope a nice fight drive he will not be bred. And if he is it will have to be a female who is overly confident, has a high threshold for defense and is not on the edge of exploding (with all drives).

Oh and just because I've been accused of thinking my dog is the best dog in the world:

HE"S THE BEST DOG IN THE WORLD

A few off base things. GSD's arent naturally protective have to be TRAINED, as I said before IMPOSSIBLE if drive or instict is not there. And if the dont have an instinct to protect and are being sold as PP dogs, then they are out for money as THOSE dogs are sleeve happy, nothing more. My thoughts of PP. It gives you control over a dog that will protect naturally (to the best of their abilities) and it gives the dog the tools to protect PROPERLY.

Another thing that GSD's only nip dont have a full mouth grip (and the full mouth isnt genetic), but your (defense) dogs do. That statement goes against nature. How could the dog with no prey bite deeper and fuller than a dog that does have prey and will use that drive to hunt and kill their prey. They NEED a full calm grip or else their "dinner" will get away. Its a known fact in the PP world that normal defense dogs more and likely will have a frontal bite or chewy bite. To me it doesnt matter if a protection dog bites full mouthed or not, a bite is a bite as I stated numerous times before. Its the fact that it was inaccurate comment that you made, while you are accusing everyone else of false information.

I havent said ONE thing degrading towards your breed (heck I didnt even MENTION a CAS until you accused me of belittling your breed). I have stated numerous times that I feel your breed along with other LGD's are quite capable of guarding. That they are great dogs I'm sure, but require understanding. I get the impression that you believe raising a LGD is like raising a golden. Maybe you are so used to it being in the breed so long, so you know nothing different, but not everyone has "it" to raise ANY type of dog.

Also, everything I DID post about drives and pp was based on the most common PPD's (GSD's, Mals, Dutchies ect) and stated that in my posts. I openly stated I dont know ANYTHING about CAS', but I DO know the GSD and corrected your misguided information regarding the GSD.
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