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  #11  
Old 09-10-2009, 07:11 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Thanks all . Yes Bam Bam is a long heavy double coated working outside livestock dog.
When he took on a pack of coyotes not a scratch could not get thru fur.

The link for the UKC Ohio has this month and july and earlier I think may.
I only looked at candids for Sept 09 and found young lady showing beagle tall great skills and then I found out a Beagle went Best in show.
I show UKC so I like to match faces with dogs/breeds

Excuse me GSD person My husband has been home for 2 days.
I own 50 acres 12 dogs sheep horses and I WORK all day. So I unlike some who live online I pick and choose how i spend my time.
I talk to my buyers in 13 years all the time, some are family i talk to more than my own MOM.
I live in niagara SNOW ICE most of year.
And if you think I am giving up any time on a great day like today for crap u are mistaken.
I will be in chat tonigth again at 10 want me be there after my core workout may be a min late if i get pooped.
Or call me 716 751 6927
Or meet me at a PP event or dog show.

Chaz are you kidding is publcity ?grow up.
I have a 2 of my CAS living with a Movie Producer protecting half million dollar horses.
I want publicity I can get it for FREE any time/
I have turned down 3 movie appearances. I will NOT sell to a MOvie star and have been asked. I do appear on T V to educate not promote. I dont take out adds.
I dont use markerting tooks like GIANT dog or macho crap to promote the breed.
And I gave up the inaccurate Ovcharka name which is so exotic it is used by bad breeders to fool any one into believing the OVCHARKA is so rare and perfect no need for HD TT or showing or working just come by my OOOOOVCHARKA.

What I was doing was taking 2 ignorant assuming gods gift to GSD people
CORRECTING they never ending WRONG information about CASD LGDS and Drive.
Which can cause my breed BSL and attract dickless wonders based on inaccurate descriptions of drives you keep on posting.

PS I actually started to write a responce to u and dan and was asked b y the thread poster to LET it go in chat so I did.
Called respect try it some time.

And I am not going to disrespect her and Im not riddling CAS thread about GSD.
IF you dont call me cause I can work nd talk or get to chat TODAY .
I will start a thread just for you and me. Okey dokey
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Last edited by planet molosser; 09-10-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2009, 07:22 PM
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Fran101 Fran101 is offline
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EVERYBODY is passionate about certain breeds, usually the ones they own lol its almost impossible to not feel biased because thats the breed you live with everyday

but i also think there is a RIGHT way to show that passion, and a WRONG way. wrong way being putting down other breeds, hijacking threads and just being rude

I love german shepherds, we all know this. i have one sitting in my siggie im pretty darn fond of, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate and admire other breeds for their attributes and skills and videos and all that fun stuff

and there is always the good ol standby
if you have nothing nice to say.. then don't say anything at all!
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2009, 08:01 PM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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OMG!!!

I asked ONE simple question, and you keep avoiding it and saying I put down your breed. (which I DIDNT) I've stated NUMEROUS times that I have tons of respect for your breed and those similar. One question was blown WAYYY out of proportion.

YOU made this thread in reference to the other one where Dan said something about a one trick pony. YOU made an inaccurate comment and all I want is clarification. How you can train something that isnt there. You said GSD's dont have a natural instinct to protect that they have to be trained. That is IMPOSSIBLE, you cannot train something INTO a dog, bring it out and harness a particular drive SURE but to have no basis to start on is IMPOSSIBLE. I only want to understand what you meant by that comment.

Tell me ONE thing I said about your breed to discredit them. I said what I like in a protection dog but made it very clear that its all in what you want that BOTH dogs are capable in protection. They have different styles, but will hopefully get the job done. You however, made rediculous comments discrediting my breed. MANY people in the PPD world try to take away from molossers and their abilities to protect, but I ALWAYS defend them, trying to get the point across that just because their style of protection isnt like a GSD or Mal doesnt mean they arent protectors.

And BTW this has nothing to do with my breed. If you came here saying a BC has no insticnts to herd (and it has to be trained INTO the dog) you would have gotten the same response from me. Yes, the dog will need to learn how to properly herd, but the instinct has to be there in order to evolve. Just like drive, its GENETIC. You cant bring out drive if it isnt there.
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDlover_4ever View Post
OMG!!!

I asked ONE simple question, and you keep avoiding it and saying I put down your breed. (which I DIDNT) I've stated NUMEROUS times that I have tons of respect for your breed and those similar. One question was blown WAYYY out of proportion.

YOU made this thread in reference to the other one where Dan said something about a one trick pony. YOU made an inaccurate comment and all I want is clarification. How you can train something that isnt there. You said GSD's dont have a natural instinct to protect that they have to be trained. That is IMPOSSIBLE, you cannot train something INTO a dog, bring it out and harness a particular drive SURE but to have no basis to start on is IMPOSSIBLE. I only want to understand what you meant by that comment.

Tell me ONE thing I said about your breed to discredit them. I said what I like in a protection dog but made it very clear that its all in what you want that BOTH dogs are capable in protection. They have different styles, but will hopefully get the job done. You however, made rediculous comments discrediting my breed. MANY people in the PPD world try to take away from molossers and their abilities to protect, but I ALWAYS defend them, trying to get the point across that just because their style of protection isnt like a GSD or Mal doesnt mean they arent protectors.

And BTW this has nothing to do with my breed. If you came here saying a BC has no insticnts to herd (and it has to be trained INTO the dog) you would have gotten the same response from me. Yes, the dog will need to learn how to properly herd, but the instinct has to be there in order to evolve. Just like drive, its GENETIC. You cant bring out drive if it isnt there.
In case any of that is towards me, just so you know, I wasn't commenting on your post in particular GSD, i could just see where this thread is heading lol

but to respond, i agree the training thing is a BIG question. how much of a good agility, herder, etc.. is drive or genetics and how much is training? its very interesting to think about
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2009, 08:44 PM
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Sorry guys on tel with a former trainer dog breeder of another breed waiting for a puppy and well he is still talking and im learning something BBL.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2009, 09:02 PM
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No Fransheska that was not directed to you .

I'm done with this discussion. PM is just coming up with excuse after excuse avoiding the ONE question I asked. And that one last reply made me realize how useless this is. Posting numerous demeaning threads/comments but cant answer a single question. So my conclusion, PM made an inaccurate comment and now cannot figure out an answer to my question without admitting she was wrong.

I got a trial coming up on the 19th gotta go fine tune some things. Bye
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  #17  
Old 09-11-2009, 08:39 AM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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nice videos, I also being a die hard gsd owner, can appreciate watching other breeds do different things.

However, I do agree, that if a dog does NOT have the drive /instinct to herd, protect, no amount of training is going to bring that out of them the way it should be instinctually bred into them..I am talking about any breed here.

There is nothing more exciting/exhilerating(sp) in my book, than seeing a dog (any breed) instinctually 'do' what it was meant to do, and of course training refines that job))

I did enjoy watching the video's tho)
diane
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  #18  
Old 09-11-2009, 10:53 AM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
nice videos, I also being a die hard gsd owner, can appreciate watching other breeds do different things.

However, I do agree, that if a dog does NOT have the drive /instinct to herd, protect, no amount of training is going to bring that out of them the way it should be instinctually bred into them..I am talking about any breed here.

There is nothing more exciting/exhilerating(sp) in my book, than seeing a dog (any breed) instinctually 'do' what it was meant to do, and of course training refines that job))

I did enjoy watching the video's tho)
diane
PERFECT: Thanks I agree. Fence broke last weekend I had to herd my own sheep.
The dog would not herd. LGD's do obedience but do not excell at it.
SDS is a known issue in them. Can they do it ? yes but lack of prey drive in males makes it VERY hard , they are VERY slow at doing the commands ,
'Females are natural hunters they have finshing prey drive and they can trial and do some tricks.

I only market them as territory guardians that guard sheep. home and family.
They can be trail guards, horseback riding guards,packpacking, camping, sheep lGD flock guards, family guards. They are a physical deterant based on MASSIve Size and Massive head.
Does not mean they are limited to outside guardians.
And based on lack of knowledge inaccurate information that a TDI dog would react to someone falling on them. GIving them impressions that this dog is a over reactive dog and simply they are not. I was forced to post those videos.

The dogs i have doing PP work are NOT allowed to post on any forum that this breed is this or that pumping up sales for a competition not correct for them.
PP trainers who have owned the CAS have all been surprised at the natural inctincts they have. One was a mondio ring Mal breeder trainer, the other a amerian bulldog , mal trainer. The CASD protects the titled PP dogs at home and in the car. He thinks of his Mals and buds as flock and protect them.

The CAS is not fun and games when it comes to protection.
They do not need to be trained to protect. They do not need a owner present to protect. They are socialized and trained by the owner to have better judgement.
By exposing them young to every walk of life and CUEING them to stand down. Later this training and exposure does created LEARNED better judgment and when they natural want to react in some cases they look up at the owner and say what gives. One command coupled bodyposture relaxed and a non threateing stranger doing something threatening they are OK what ever u say mom. a Bond of trust that is great.

I dont let them tug at anything the first command you teach is drop it.
Hanging on to a sleeve in leu of a person simply is NOT something we try to bring out in a dog that is naturally defensive.
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  #19  
Old 09-11-2009, 11:39 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDlover_4ever View Post
And I got accused of being defensive and taking it personal . You still havent answered my one and only question, that brought out your "protective" side. HOW DO YOU TAKE A DOG WITH NO PROTECTIVE INSTICTS AND TRAIN THEM TO PROTECT?

about.
From a GSD guy:. Like Ed says 99% of dogs will not defend there owners, they see you as pack leader there to defend them, unless trained other wise.

When people ask me my hobbies and i say dogs and schutzhund i get 'oh my dog would do that to protect me etc'.
Several years ago in a little village a few miles away a lady was walking her two gsds and was raped. Sorry if this shock but its true.

My parents took a gsd rescue that was found living wild in the Brecon Beacons (mountain range in Wales). Dad kept him as a guard dog for the kennels and at night he had free roam of the pereimter grounds. When the kenels were broken into **** dog did squat ( i rekon he could have licked the intruder to death at least).

so breeds can have gaurding tendacies like the rott/gsd but imo unless trained and tested you just never now. _________________________
schutzhund end quote

PS Ive attented PP trials in which PP dogs are sent on innocent people sitting on bench reading papers . They are given commands to BITE. They are trained to bite from a young age. They also are trained for complete control from the owners before they are worked on man.
.CASD do NOT bite based on prey drive or by command. They only bite when protecting . If stable well bred socialized dogs.

You can train a OES to bite protect on command if he dog has the proper drives.
Last I check they are not the norm talk guardian breed. Yet Ive seen one do pp work . THe how to train is based on each trainers owners wants and needs.
Many dog not want social dogs, i found trainers who like rank dogs, other who want defense and many who want tons of prey.
So how to train a non protective dog to protect via bite work is different depending the the breed the dog and the lines.
Dont matter it can be done. GOOD pp trainers can do just about anything.
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Last edited by planet molosser; 09-12-2009 at 12:16 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2009, 11:58 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post
I'm sorry you spent so much time searching for those videos because aside from the ones showing the dogs playing around and doing little jumps and being led thru weave poles, which were fun to watch, the skill based ones were not that good.
The obedience was sloppy. The tracking didn't look like tracking to me- more like taking the dog for a walk and letting it sniff around.
Neither protection video was good-
Bobomay kept biting and releasing the sleeve with shallow bites (I thought these dogs naturally bit full and deep? Didn't see it.) He kept backing away too. My Dane bites better than that and we don't even train her for it.
The younger dog was fed the tug to get a deep bite, then when the decoy makes the swinging motion over the dogs head right before he releases it you can see the dog cringe/flinch and back away.
I was looking forward to the guarding the sheep ones but they didn't show anything of note, just a dog wandering around the flock.
100 tricks? I'm still not seeing it. Can the dogs do some things? Yes- just like most other dogs can do. I know you are proud of your breed, as we all are proud of our breeds of choice, but let it be what it is. It's not a jack of all trades dog and while once in a while one might be a CGC or TDI (which I'd be hard pressed to trust- just like my friend has a Bouvier that got a CGC but he still won't let people pet her because he doesn't trust her), they are a livestock guardian dog that has been bred for ages and ages to do that one thing, they do it well, so why try to make it something it isn't.

Dan BOBO was trying to drag the bad guy back to his owner that what a LGD does they circle BACK to the flock. They do NOT do long sends!!!!

The obedience for a LGD was great that woman in Europe has done better than most world wide. But since you vision is self limiting to GSD or die. And you lack knowledge of LGDS or other type guardians .
All you can do is compare to your work . Which is why simply nothing I can say will educate or change your mind.

You wrongly claimed they have ONE trick.
I proved they can do tricks period.

BIte see other thread You are welcome to come here for a real threat
take a bite from any dog without a sleeve try to get to me and see what happens.
real bad guys the ones I took down do not come equiped with sleeves.
And Your dog would be happy if he got the sleeve. My dog would Not let the bad guy in with no paid training.

Comparing a bouvier to a CAS is OMG u got to be kidding.
And claiming cause your friends dog is unstable to my breed is SICK.
And i could list the many many unstable GSDs that I have FAILED as a CGC tester that were PP dogs. I have their signed FORMS.

PS TDI if you knew it is MUCH harder than a CGC the CGC is first step for TDI.
The dogs ar eoften Hugged rolled on back have to navigate wheel chairs dropped bed bans and people use them to STAND up. Pressure is applied.
U r correct some CAS who pass TDI can not work in hospitals .
But you can NOT even fathom why.

Here is the dog CGC protection dog BOBO real unstable dog LOL.
YouTube - Seriously stable central asian shepherd FF BOBO
over 40000 people were here that day o

Re livestock work next time at 4 am when the coyotes attack I will remember to get the Video camera instead of shoving the gun in many hand and grabbing more dogs for back up.
The fact u hit that too shows you lack TOTAL dog knowedge outside your BUBBLE.
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