Bittersweet.. Aggression Troubles

[SharkBait]

As you may remember, Matisse got his bronze obedience award last year when he was 10 months old, as we go to a weekly Good Citizen Dog Obedience classes.
Anyways on a good note!
He did his silver and Gold tests in June there and passed, i was very very proud of him! However, he almost failed his gold when he was required to stand up and let the examiner give him a check up like a vet would do. You see, she checked his ears, gums, eyes etc and his front paws, but when she started checking his back end, he started growling and then barked at her very loudly when she contunued to check him. So i had to get the trainer who takes our class (who he's known since he was much younger) to check him and he was fine with that. And he lets me do it too, however i remember when he was younger he had a problem with anyone touching him there.

Anyways, long story short.. Matisse has developed a bit a cheeky attitude. And its quite worrying. He mostly has a thing for men he doesn't know, but he would still growl at women or children if he felt threatened (like the other day when a wee girl approached him while he was tied up).

He hates people on our turf if he doesn't know them, hates men in uniforms and one of our neighbours! The other day he got out of the house and circled our neighbour Tom while barking at him and really looking very nasty. I was so afraid he was going to bite him!!

It seems to be getting worse, although he'll be fine once hes with someone new for a bit and hes generally happy to see girls around my age come in the house, hes become a bit nervous of strangers and if they get too close he'll start with his insane warning barks.


I bought a halti to use while i walk him so if there's someone he doesn't like on our way i can control him better.
I dont even know where this has come from all of a sudden, he was socialised loads as a pup and still sees a vareity people often at the park, obedience class and family visits. My aunt thinks it could be down to his breeding as he has collie and terrier in him, perhaps tibetan terrier which are known to be aloof.

I just dont know what to do..?
please help, if you have any tips or advice at all I'll give them a go
I think he's insecure and its fear aggression, not just agression for the sake of it.

[Doberluv]

You see, she checked his ears, gums, eyes etc and his front paws, but when she started checking his back end, he started growling and then barked at her very loudly when she contunued to check him.

So, he learned that growling didn't work to pursuade her to stop doing what she was doing. She pressed on, moving him above his tolerance level. So, he has learned that he will need to escalate things in order to see if that will work to keep something scary from happening to him. If barking loudly won't stop the scary or unpleasant thing, then the next step will be a bite.

He sounds like he's not had ample socialization to those things done by more strangers when he was a very small pup. So now, novel people doing weird things to him makes him jumpy. Understandable.

With too little socialization before about 3-4 months of age...too little practice with all kinds of people (big, small, kids, men, men with beards, women in hats and so on) doing all kinds of things including checking his hind quarters and everywhere else, it will be very difficult to over come.

You can try with someone he's relatively comfortable with, associate with high value food on a hungry stomach....lots of practice, every day, if possible....moving ahead as he gets comfortable with that to adding another person doing things he's sort of okay with and gradually moving to scarier things etc. In other words, try to convince him that lots of different people doing these examinations or any other thing that triggers him...are really good news...that gourmet cooking comes his way when they're around. Desensatize him by keeping him just below his tolerance threshold while you're exposing him to mild forms of the triggers that upset him and reinforcing small improvements...gradually adding a little more pressure as he accepts and gets comfortable with a previous level.

But like I said, improvement may not be as good as you expect and he will have to be managed at all times. He either didn't have ample practice with this stuff and/or his temperament is not all that stable.

As far as the girl approaching when he was tied, I recommend you gradually get him use to a muzzle or never leave him tied when you're not there to block little girls or anyone from approaching. You need to protect him from people who press him.

If you see no improvement, I'd seek the help of a behaviorist. Don't let anyone use punishment to supress aggressive tendencies.

Congrats are in order though, for his good achievements. You've done a great job with him. Now, if you can help him to believe that the things he finds awful are actually just super duper, he may come around more.

[SharkBait]

thanks doberluv for taking the time to explain this all to me, i very much appreciate it.

He's supposed to go to the vet this month for his check up and booster, so could well be the same scenario again with him needing to be examined but not liking it. I'm unsure though what i should do while he is getting checked by the vet, do i reassure him by petting and talking to him, or will this rienforce his thoughts that he should be scared in this situation?

Food usually goes down quite well with Matisse so it sounds like good advice, and a while ago a friend came over (male friend) and although he barked at him and was cheeky when he first came in, within the hour he was comfortable enough to lie beside him on the sofa and be petted. I gave my friend treats to feed him so that seemed to work.

Also another thing, I mentioned about him getting out of the house and going crazy barking at my neighbour the other day. Anyway, i called and called him and he would not defocus his attention from Tom the neighbour, and if i went to grab him he'd run away, only to run back to scare Tom again. When he eventually came close and i grabbed him,i told him off, brought him in inside and left him in isolation for a few minutes as a punishment. But now i think that was probably a bad way to go about it. I'm not sure if he thinks he's being scolded for being so cheeky and ignoring me, or for eventually coming to me..? I don't know how to react when he eventually gives in, as if i reward him he might thinks it ok to come the 20th time I called him. If this were in the park and he was ignoring me after 3-4 calls, i just walk the opposite direction and he comes running, but in situations like that I was desperate to get him back. How should i react next time he eventually comes over after harassing someone (or just in general)?

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

I don't know how to react when he eventually gives in, as if i reward him he might thinks it ok to come the 20th time I called him. If this were in the park and he was ignoring me after 3-4 calls, i just walk the opposite direction and he comes running, but in situations like that I was desperate to get him back. How should i react next time he eventually comes over after harassing someone (or just in general)?

Any time the dog comes to you, you MUST reward him for it. Until he's able to come on the first command, keep him on a leash or a long line. Practice recalls, then practice them some more, then practice them with varying distractions. Don't use your recall command unless you're sure he'll do it. By now, it's very likely that you need to change the command as he's learned that he doesn't have to come when he hears it.

[Doberluv]

When he eventually came close and i grabbed him,i told him off, brought him in inside and left him in isolation for a few minutes as a punishment

He learned that it doesn't pay off too well to come. Good advice from Corgipower to work on that.

At the vet's, since he won't have had much practice yet, I'd talk quietly to him to try to calm him with making too big of a fuss. Take something very tasty, like some canned dog food or whatever is his favorite and feed him while the vet is examining him, if it's not interferring with the vet. Explain to the vet that you're wanting to make a positive association between the vet exam, the vet himself and good stuff. If the vet tells you that you'll be rewarding him for growling, tell him that you want to do it this way. I had a vet tell me that when I was feeding my son's dog when she was in a lot of pain while being examined. You're not rewarding the dog for growling, no matter how you slice it. You're creating a positive association and reducing anxiety. Start the food before he starts getting antsy.

You may need to get a muzzle. Condition him to that slowly. Feed through the hole, but don't strap it on him. Praise, make a fuss and leave it alone for a half hour or so. come back and do it again. If he's okay with that, put it on him more but don't strap it....just for a second while you feed him through it. Remove it. Give him a break. Repeat. Then if all is okay, strap it on him and feed....just for a few seconds. Gradually work up to more tolerance. This might take a few days. Don't over whelm him but give him some mini lessons.

Let us know how things go. It sounds like you could use some help with some general training. It can make a big difference in his general behavior to work on some basic obedience. You can get help here or take an obedience class with a positive method trainer. No more punishment. At least not harsh stuff.

[bubbatd]

must say that his sweet face says , " don't mess with me ! " He'll be fine with a little more work !

[SharkBait]

thanks so much for your help and support guys, i clearly need it, so i'm glad you have set me straight.
haha Grammy that's true! I wish he was more cute, less cheek though aha.

[Sweet72947]

I would have his rear checked at the vet, he could have back/hip problems that make it painful to be touched, which could be why he doesn't like his rear being messed with.

Good luck with your training!

[ihartgonzo]

Awww... lil Matisse! I would growl/bark if some strange lady was feeling up my rear, too. ;3

Gonzo has a propensity to growl at strangers who get in his face, too. Border Collies are definitely known to be wary of strangers - and it does NOT help that the majority of people have no idea how to greet a dog (most people run straight up, gush loudly, bend over them, pet them on top of the head, etc). What is important is that you control Matisse's interactions with people as best as you possibly can!!! Enlist as many friends/neighbors/trainers as possible in desensitizing him to new people meeting him. Make sure they know how to politely approach him: toss treats to him, stand sideways/squatting, talk calmly or not at all, allow him to approach them, allow him to sniff their hand before gently petting his neck/side, etc. Avoid rude children and random strangers who aren't willing to listen to your instructions... like the plague. Every bad encounter, every experience that he is pushed past threshold (that is, the point at which he feels the need to warn them in any way), is a step backwards. Personally, I'm not a fan of head halters, as many dogs feel vulnerable/trapped/shut down with them on. I would get a rolled leather collar fit to the top of his neck with room for just 2 fingers, if you're concerned with him slipping a collar.