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  #41  
Old 09-06-2009, 06:29 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Tell me, what is so wrong with having a dog hold the intruder at bay? Why MUST the dog bite in order to protect? In this world where you get sued for dog bites and can have your dog euthanized why is it so important that your dog bite. And to bite and release and retreat!!! If a dog MUST bite someone it better be to hold them until I get my gun and finish the job. I would NEVER want to let that person go. Either the police is coming to pick him up or he's done. Handcuffs or bodybag if someone really attacked you. I would want things to be COMPLETELY clear if things were to go wrong, and you cannot gurantee that if the bad guy gets away. The stories they can come up with. I would not allow ANYONE to threaten my lifestyle (including my dogs). I would want the police to have a CLEAR image of what really happened. And that simply cannot happen if the person is allowed to run off.
I figure a load of shot will pretty much obscure the dog mauling
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  #42  
Old 09-06-2009, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
i just had this same discussion from the other direction. some guy was like the GSD/mal are the most awesome can beat anything and craps tiffany cufflinks. the GSD is a good well rounded breed that can be a very capable guardian. molossers can be very capable guardians. arguing over which is better or more natural is a waste of time even more so if one person is arguing and the other not so much.
I'm not debating which is better. I really dont care, a bite is a bite. It will either stop the threat or **** the threat off till they kill the dog.

But PM came here saying GSD's are not naturally protective, that they will only nip from behind and cower once faced with a threat and have to be trained. Like I said you cannot train what is not there!!! Training gives your dogs the tools to deal with their protective instincts and gives you control over that.

Most PP people feel molossers are horrible protection dogs. I am NOT one of them. Its all in what you want and can handle. I am not trying to take anything away from the LGD's, so please dont to my breed.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2009, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
I figure a load of shot will pretty much obscure the dog mauling
I meant if the person was allowed to run away. Then come up with a story that will put my dogs life on the line (it doesnt take much to sue these days). It would only be my word against his/her, no proof. I dont care if my dog bites the threat but if he does, he better not let them get away. Once the initial bite happens I feel I would have no choice but to kill them or hold them until the police show up and can document every piece of evidence proving my dog is not vicious and is very controlled.
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2009, 09:44 PM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Excuse me when did i say coward??????? pls dont put words in my mouth,
THe prey herding drive was is in the breed it is not natural defense.
However anyone who really knows dogs would tell you all dogs have self preservation some more than others.
And a GSD if faced with a threat can go into self preservation does not make every GSD coming from every litter AUTO protection DOGS.
They require training.

PS being a breeder I can also tell u not all my CAS make it as LGDS , a few are only watch dogs, most are guard dogs and a handfull can do odd things like show tdi.
With this said I am not going to bother to read the other page.

you are taking this personally and not as a objectivity in relations t dogs

PS when I get a call for serious guard dogs needed. I dont even sell them a dog I send them to a PP trainer to get a 5 grand trained GSD .
If they dont have that kind of money or time to raise a pup and train it I send them to FILA or CO in cold weather. I DO NOT SELL THEM A CAS.

Unlike you are am not under the illusion I own Lassie who lives no matter the odds.

2 guarentees in life dying and taxes GSD or CAS protectiion is NOT one of them.

Breeding is not a FOR SURE thing. Not for GSD or CAS or gods gift to dogs.

You play the odds which is why the good breeder tries to improve the odds by working the dogs , temperament testing the HELL out of them, health testing and not matching high ADR to high ADR or low for that matter . Breeding to the standard inc temperament.
So they get a range of temps and match homes with pups vs sell.

With all this whats great about dogs is so many to choose from.
I have been lucky to work test show own and meet many and that is how i form my opinions.
My quest of knowledge thank bloody god goes beyond net chats.

History of the Mastiff by wynn and the original GSD book are good items to add to any collection plus Mammallia by Jardine.
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Last edited by planet molosser; 09-06-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2009, 09:55 PM
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Renee when i started out in security we were trained to detain after the theft occured. THis resulted in me being shot knifed etc . lAter we learned how to reduce and or PREVENT theft by use of patrol dogs, some times signs saying dog present, cages for high ticket items etc . Called Loss prevention.

LGDS in most cases are deterrant based on sheer size and built reducing loss;s based
Plus lack of prey drive in males makes them manageable not high energy dogs.
In many cases the predators be it human or bear seek a easier target.

Personally with my background I still do nOT want to come home to my dog holding someone in my house the variables is too high. I want the dog to stop them from coming in.

Now if it fila with soft mouth and has HOLD of the person It would make me feel a bit better. And R i can tell u if i go back to U.c work I want a Karma pup. The hesitation a LGD CAS does BEFORE protecting could cost me my life . Cause in the city I dont need a warning someone coming up on me on the job that fast needs natural defense and sorry no better than Fila.
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  #46  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:19 PM
babymomma babymomma is offline
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Im sorry, But I have to Laugh.. A GSD, not naturally Defensive or protective

There may be a few Oddballs Out there That Would just go over and lick the intruder. But the breed as a whole Is pretty dang protective.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:20 PM
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If I ever ended up living alone in a big city (I plan to end up in a city some day) I would want a Kharma puppy. With a family in a more rural area, I'm responsible enough to know to aim for something less.... Fila lol.

We're looking into Aussies and hey, for all we know, we'll get a BC that will be a good watchdog too.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:34 PM
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GSDlover
it wasn't directed at you. i was trying subtly to let PM know she may not be posting objectively. i too see SOME of what she wrote as derogatory toward the GSD as a whole & not objective.
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  #49  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:45 PM
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Yep the GSD is the ultimate in everything. No real reason for anyone else to own or breed any other breed let alone a breeds that are OLDER then the GSD by thousands of years.
NO real need for the Protection trainers they are just born perfect.



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  #50  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
Im sorry, But I have to Laugh.. A GSD, not naturally Defensive or protective

There may be a few Oddballs Out there That Would just go over and lick the intruder. But the breed as a whole Is pretty dang protective.
That's pretty much not true. The majority of the average GSD's you see out today are either from Am. show lines and would **** in the corner rather than face a threat. The German show lines aren't much better in terms of workable drives. If you want a dog that's going to be naturally protective, you need to look at European dogs. You need to make sure the dogs your getting your dog from are protective without the training. If they're only protective because they've been trained that way, well, then you just bought a nice looking dog that may or may not protect you. If you're willing to put the work in into making the dog into a PP dog then you've got the liability of having a dog that's been trained to bite and all that entails.

Many many many of the GSD's I've met are either nerve bags who wont work without being in defense, which is really dangerous in of itself. Or dogs who just thought it was a grand old game. And wouldn't really defend if the situation came down to it. There's no sleeve, whats the dog going to bite?

To really get a good dog, you have to have a dog who sees it as more than a game. They don't want the sleeve, they want the man behind the sleeve and they could care less about whether he's wearing it or not.

Most GSD's deter people by just looking intimidating. If that's what you want, that's cool. But being naturally defensive/protective? Not many are like that anymore. You have to bring those drives out through working the dog proactively.
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