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  #21  
Old 08-21-2009, 05:15 PM
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No need to apologize for hijacking lol thats what threads are all about, conversations change and so do threads and im finding all this very interesting
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2009, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
Just curious

whats your relationship with them like?

how important do you think your relationship is?

would you buy a dog you like from a breeder you don't really "click" with?

She's roughly 4 hours away but we try to randomly visit. Our relationship is friendly, but she intimidates me. If you met her, you'd understand. Also, you are expected to help her around the house when you visit. BUT, she appreciates hard work and honesty, so we get along.

I would think our relationship is pretty important. I can ask her anything - she's got 40 years of experience and knows her dogs like the back of her hand. If I couldn't get along with her, I don't know how well we would mesh in decision making.

I don't think I could buy a dog from someone that I couldn't get along with.

As for the mixed-breed....as long as the person breeding is holding themselves to the same standards a reputable purebred breeder, then I'm all for it. BUT, LMPoo doesn't appear to fall into my own category of a "good breeder."

JMHO.
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:21 PM
LMPOO LMPOO is offline
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Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
LMPOO: First off, it is unethical to breed mixed breeed dogs.. Period.. There are enouogh MIXED BREED (which is what a "cockapoo" is, a mixed breed dog)dogs dying in shelters without you supplying more.. JMO.

And second. Vets know NOTHING about food, unless they research it on there own.. They push crap food to make *Gasp* Money!

Royal canin wouldnt even come into my home.. I warn you, I know people who's pets are Dying of kidney failure bcause of tainted royal canin.

And Fran, to the original question. I have an amazing relationship with keely's breeder. She is a very friendly person and always checks in on her puppies... She is JUST like me. even our odg situiations as children were the same! :P.. Its scary sometimes how much alike we are.
Like I said before, I respect your opinion, however strongly disagree. It is unethical for a breeder to allow any of their puppies sent to a shelter. I require all dogs be returned to me in the event a family is unable to keep their dog. There are purposes for a cross breeding and I believe in those reasons. I think that if a breeder cross breeds any and all breeds to make $ then they are unethical. I breed and specialize in Cockapoo's. I love them and think they are perfect family pets.

My vet is very knowledgeable and would never offer a dog food that was not quality. Maybe the vet you go to is out for the $, but mine is not. Royal Canin is a quality food!! Years ago they had a recall as well as many other dog feeds, however I did not have any of the tainted food.

Last edited by LMPOO; 08-21-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:28 PM
LMPOO LMPOO is offline
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!!!!!

Last edited by LMPOO; 08-21-2009 at 07:23 PM.
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:43 PM
LMPOO LMPOO is offline
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Would the person whom called my home, please not call again.

Last edited by LMPOO; 08-21-2009 at 07:23 PM.
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:46 PM
LMPOO LMPOO is offline
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Hmmm!

Last edited by LMPOO; 08-21-2009 at 07:22 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:52 PM
sammgirl sammgirl is offline
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If someone called your house over this thread, that's super creepy. Although, if you do post your number publicly then you do open yourself up.

I'd like to comment since Fran says it's ok and its her thread:

First off, when you play god with the genetics of another species, then it's your responsibility to do things to the absolute best of your ability and it is MY opinion that you are not doing that.

In my opinion, every decision to put two animals together to breed should be carefully researched on every level: structurally, genetically, and regarding also temperment/working ability of the parents.

For example, if you put two dogs together who have the same physical flaw, you cannot improve on type. If you are not well schooled in structure, you cannot make that type of decision.

The only way to be well schooled in structure is to compare your dog to other dogs by showing or some other type of venue.

Do you see what I am saying or am I wasting my breath? If YOU are playing GOD with the genetics of another species it is YOUR JOB to make sure that you are making the best decision possible.

Being willfully ignorant of these things is no excuse.

AND, as to your hypoallergenic idea, if you breed a breed that sheds (spaniels) to a breed that doesn't (poodle) you have great chance that the puppies will shed because they are not pure bred, so that shoots down your premise for breeding totally.

You don't have to have a doctorate in animal genetics to figure that out, and as long as you've been breeding, surely you've at least seen with your own eyes that many of your puppies shed.

According to that logic, you argued yourself out of a reason to breed mutts.

Also, maybe you don't know this, but the health of a litter depends on the individual genetics of the parents being thrown together. So, if you have a cockapoo with a heart defect that you don't know about, and you breed her to a dog that has a genetic carrier for the same defect, your puppies though they are "hybrids" could be born with holes in their hearts.

Good breeders have cardiograms done on the dogs they are breeding. They have their hips and their knees xrayed. They are tested for genetic markers which would indicate that they are carriers for diseases such as Addisons, PHPT, and Von Willebrands.

If you do not do these things, then you are not giving your litters a fighting chance. Just to be clear, I do not know the diseases that plague both spaniels and poodles. BUT, if I was going to combine them, I would know that like the back of my hand.

Do you see how that works? Say you have a poodle with bad knees or hips and you breed it to a spaniel with bad hips or knees, regardless of whether the puppies are mutts or not they will be born with bad hips or knees.

It seems to me that you have not given your breeding program very much thought from the arguments which you have presented.

Just to reiterate, you could be the nicest person in the world. I do not know you personally, and the only thing I can base this post from is your previous post.

However, just because you are nice does not mean that you know how to breed dogs. Even these family "hybrids" that you are bringing into the world deserve as much of a shot as any purebred litter.

You may not agree with me, and that's ok. But I hope that when you read this that it stays with you every time that you bring another litter into the world.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:33 PM
LMPOO LMPOO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammgirl View Post
If someone called your house over this thread, that's super creepy. Although, if you do post your number publicly then you do open yourself up.

I'd like to comment since Fran says it's ok and its her thread:

First off, when you play god with the genetics of another species, then it's your responsibility to do things to the absolute best of your ability and it is MY opinion that you are not doing that.

In my opinion, every decision to put two animals together to breed should be carefully researched on every level: structurally, genetically, and regarding also temperment/working ability of the parents.

For example, if you put two dogs together who have the same physical flaw, you cannot improve on type. If you are not well schooled in structure, you cannot make that type of decision.

The only way to be well schooled in structure is to compare your dog to other dogs by showing or some other type of venue.

Do you see what I am saying or am I wasting my breath? If YOU are playing GOD with the genetics of another species it is YOUR JOB to make sure that you are making the best decision possible.

Being willfully ignorant of these things is no excuse.

AND, as to your hypoallergenic idea, if you breed a breed that sheds (spaniels) to a breed that doesn't (poodle) you have great chance that the puppies will shed because they are not pure bred, so that shoots down your premise for breeding totally.

You don't have to have a doctorate in animal genetics to figure that out, and as long as you've been breeding, surely you've at least seen with your own eyes that many of your puppies shed.

According to that logic, you argued yourself out of a reason to breed mutts.

Also, maybe you don't know this, but the health of a litter depends on the individual genetics of the parents being thrown together. So, if you have a cockapoo with a heart defect that you don't know about, and you breed her to a dog that has a genetic carrier for the same defect, your puppies though they are "hybrids" could be born with holes in their hearts.

Good breeders have cardiograms done on the dogs they are breeding. They have their hips and their knees xrayed. They are tested for genetic markers which would indicate that they are carriers for diseases such as Addisons, PHPT, and Von Willebrands.

If you do not do these things, then you are not giving your litters a fighting chance. Just to be clear, I do not know the diseases that plague both spaniels and poodles. BUT, if I was going to combine them, I would know that like the back of my hand.

Do you see how that works? Say you have a poodle with bad knees or hips and you breed it to a spaniel with bad hips or knees, regardless of whether the puppies are mutts or not they will be born with bad hips or knees.

It seems to me that you have not given your breeding program very much thought from the arguments which you have presented.

Just to reiterate, you could be the nicest person in the world. I do not know you personally, and the only thing I can base this post from is your previous post.

However, just because you are nice does not mean that you know how to breed dogs. Even these family "hybrids" that you are bringing into the world deserve as much of a shot as any purebred litter.

You may not agree with me, and that's ok. But I hope that when you read this that it stays with you every time that you bring another litter into the world.
My phone number is posted for potential buyers, heck it is in the phone book. Is yours? I guess you are opening yourself up, hmm!

You seriously took my words way out of text. By diminishing health problems I am referring to ear infections, allergies and so on. I do test each and every one of my breeding dogs. We have the hips, patella's (knees) and eyes tested. All of my dogs are seen by our vet an a regular basis. I would NEVER breed a dog with a heart defect or any illness for that matter. Why you feel the need to bash my breeding program is unclear but you need to stop.

There is no need for you to talk to me as though I am an idiot when clearly you do not know what you are talking about. I have 28 years experience with dogs including the show ring, and the two years I spent as a vet tech.

You really need to stop with your slander comments and mind your own.

I am very glad my customer was happy enough to refer me but there was no need for my breeding program and ethics to be questioned and picked apart and really distorted.

If you have any further comments or questions, please send me a personal email.

I did contact the police in regards to the three threatening phone calls.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:42 PM
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I don't have a comment as to the other conversation going on, but regarding the original topic...

My relationship with the Dobes' breeder is wonderful. I consider her to be one of my very, very best friends. I love her and wish all breeders cared about their owners and dogs like she does.

I feel that it is very important for me to get along well and have a good relationship with a breeder. Perhaps not everyone feels that way, and that's fine, but I want breeder support for the life of my dog... and even better if that breeder turns out to be a friend, though that's just an added bonus.

Nope, I will not buy a dog from a breeder who I don't click with. There's a Toller breeder here in Alberta, whose breeding program is about as perfect as they come IMO, but she and I don't click at all and so I won't have a dog from her ever.

My relationship with Dance's breeder is rocky. The first year wasn't good, then things got better and I really enjoyed training and whatnot with her and getting to know her a bit. Things are pretty bad now, and once Dance's contract is fulfilled, that'll be the end of my relationship with her. Well, except for updating her a bit on Dance's life here and there as a good owner should and still being friendly to her at shows. Aside from that, I'm done.

My search for my next ideal breeder is going to be long and hard. I don't want to put up with the stuff I've already had to again, and I'm going to make absolutely sure my next Toller comes from the best possible breeder I can find that meets my standards. Even if that means I have to import the dog... which is a very likely option. Good thing I don't want another dog until Dance is at least 6 or 7 years old, so I have a while to find somebody.
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Last edited by Toller_08; 08-21-2009 at 08:55 PM.
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:56 PM
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No breeder with Meg, but we had a wonderful relationship with Medley's breeder throughout his entire 15 years. Some of it was probably luck - I have no idea how much my parents actually researched at the time (I was ten when we got him). A lot of it was probably because with the breed (Bedlington Terriers), there aren't a lot of random people breeding them. The breeder we used bred dogs with championships, they were health tested (hips, eyes, and vWD, according to the papers we still have). She was wonderful about answering our questions, sent along photos of Medley's relatives occasionally, and always sent nice letters at Christmas time, even when she went into assisted living (I remember thinking she looked to be 100 when we went to pick him up; I can't believe she outlived Medley!). She did recommend Eukanuba, but that was also 20 years ago; I have no idea how much knowledge there was about diet at the time.

I will be looking for something very different in my next dog/breeder, but for a young family buying their first dog, we couldn't have asked for a better experience.
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