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  #21  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dobesgalore View Post
All I'm saying, is dobermans are perfectly capable of bite work.
I never said they weren't, but when19 out of 20 come thru and don't have an ounce of working ability in them, it's very tough for me to call them a working breed anymore. The nice one's are very nice working dogs. The problem is you have to search long and hard to find one. and it's been a while since one has come hard enough to even consider a neck injury regardless of the helper work. Not saying they can't exist, they're just very rare.
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:13 AM
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I don't think PD's have to search to hard for the breeds they use. They get dogs already fully trained from a breeder for police dogs and such. The ones we see, and own are (regardless of the breed) are pets, showing etc... Police, military and so on have specially bred dogs. Not the average family pet.
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dobesgalore View Post
I don't think PD's have to search to hard for the breeds they use. They get dogs already fully trained from a breeder for police dogs and such. The ones we see, and own are (regardless of the breed) are pets, showing etc... Police, military and so on have specially bred dogs. Not the average family pet.
To some extent it depends on the department, but many PDs do have to search hard. The officers don't do the searching, typically it's who ever runs the k-9 unit who selects dogs. They usually have a third party who brings a selection of dogs to them and the k9 department evaluates. It's not uncommon for 10 dogs to come out for evaluations and all 10 be rejected.

They rarely - if ever - get fully trained dogs. The dogs might be started ~ basic obedience, some obstacles, maybe tug work and drive building as pups. The department usually gets them when they're about a year and a half to two years old and does the training from there.
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  #24  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:58 AM
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You are right that all departments do it different. I was married to a cop. Although he wasn't part of the K9 unit. The head K9 officer here is also a police dog trainer. He does have a particular source for his dogs. (Where I don't know) He pairs the dog with the officer and they work together building a partnership. If the dept. has a K9 unit, they do have sources where their dogs come from. It dosn't always mean that there are dogs available all the time though.
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  #25  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Sounds like your department needs to meet a mali.
Or a dutch!!!!

The guy I do decoy work for breeds dogs for protection work. He gets PD buying his dogs along with private sales. The private buyers often op for puppies where as the PD wants young adults who have been started on the suit but still need a lot of shaping. Usually between the ages of 6 months and 2 years. They don't really care to deal with the young puppies and beginning obedience.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:47 PM
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They don't really care to deal with the young puppies and beginning obedience.
It's not that they don't care to deal with it, it's that they want a young adult so they have a better idea of what they're getting. Also because once the dog is selected for the k9 unit, they have a limited amount of time to get him ready for the street.

There are k9 officers who will purchase a puppy on their own and raise him at home and when he's older and their current dog is being retired, the pup will become their new police dog.
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:57 PM
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it's not the diameter of the neck it's the strength of the muscles in it. look at sighthounds, long thing necks (in general) but they hit other animals at higher speeds than any other dog. their main neck injuries come after the impact not because of it. a skinny neck of strong well worked muscle will take fewer injuries than a fat neck of a couch potato.
the value of the long skinny neck is that they can bite the wrist of the hand choking them unless you get right against the jaw hinge. then they can still get the arm. unlike a bull or mastiff w/ their shorter necks if you get under the hinge you eliminate the bite threat. however any dog can be stopped by grabbing the bottom jaw and torqueing it toward the dogs chest. i know all the PP trainer experts are going to say BS but i've got the scars to prove what i'm saying (mostly on the right hand & arm). where the bull & mastiff shine is pain tolerance, heart & thrashing. they can sling you around much better than the sheperds & dobes which does A LOT of tearing damage to the muscles.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:59 PM
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exactly, they want a dog that has it's health and hips tested, they want a dog that has mostly matured into its adult working drives and can be tested, have it's training finished, paired with a handler and put on the street. They aren't waiting for brains and bodies to mature. They don't have the luxery of time or money. 12 months minimum I'd say more like 15-18 months is ideal, but there's always exceptions.
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:23 PM
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All great replies, thanks.

Pops, I was thinking of sighthounds when I asked the question. I wondered why they didn't breed shepherds with a more sighthound-ish body, they would be faster and harder hitting. You could use them for catching whatever you liked- bunnies coyotes, people . My first idea was that the neck wouldn't be able to take hitting something so big with such speed, but then I looked at the dobes with thin necks. I guess to have the same mass to slow someone down you'd have to have a larger, lankier more gangly dog vs something nice and compact.

Never really thought the reach, but that is a really good point.
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  #30  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandra View Post
I wondered why they didn't breed shepherds with a more sighthound-ish body, they would be faster and harder hitting.
Wouldn't that simply be a Mal? especially if you look at the taller, leggier ones
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