double merel sheltie, bred to another blue merel?

[dogsarebetter]

In the hopefully very very distant future when I lose one of my shelties I would like to rescue an almost completely white sheltie. I see them on petfinder often because puppy mills breed them to sell them. they call them "rare!" and of course those puppy mills eventually get raided and all the dogs taken away.

What can I expect to all be wrong with a white sheltie?
I'd assume it would be deaf, and/or blind. Also have allergies and maybe an immune system disorder?

[Beanie]

A double merle is the "lethal white." Blue merle bred to blue merle has a 25% chance of producing the double merle.

Deafness and blindness are your most likely issues with a double merle. Skin problems are pretty likely too. And if it's a puppy mill sheltie you can expect a host of other issues. Extreme shyness, reactivity issues, extreme barkiness for a sheltie (and deafness can compound that), hip problems, potential elbow problems though you'll see poor hips more often.
I wouldn't be surprised to see immune diseases and heart problems as well, not just because of the double merle, but because of the puppy mill background. Eye problems are in the same field - even if you didn't have the double merle to contend with, shelties can have CEA and PRA. Eliminate the health testing and any concern for general health (like puppy mills have) and your odds for those increase a lot.

[dogsarebetter]

Thanks Beanie. Sounds like a possible handful!
I want a white sheltie.... but of course I would never support that. So I will have to rescue from probably a puppy mill situation.
Maybe I can find a reputable breeder that had an oops litter between two blues.

[YodelDogs]

Although it is not an approved color in the AKC breed standard, Shelties can come in a color pattern called color-headed whites. These dogs are predominantly white but they do not have any of the health problems associated with double merles.

Here's a picture of a group of these Shelties.

White Sheltand Sheepdog Association

And scroll down this page to see more pics.

Shetland Sheepdog Coat Colors and Information

[Boemy]

Are those color-headed whites genetically double-merles or something else?

When I was looking at sheltie breeder websites I came across a breeder who had been showing/breeding for many decades and had tracked instances of double-merle breeding and come to the conclusion that a double-merle puppy with colored ears/face were just as likely to be deaf/blind as ones without color on their ears/face, and vice versa. Basically a 1/4 chance of problems for any given pup.

[Beanie]

A colour-headed white doesn't have the merling gene (or rather, likely doesn't - of course they can have one copy of the recessive merle gene.) They are white because of the predominance of white factoring - their white "markings," in other words, are very heavy, so the dog is white. So nope, they wouldn't have the health issues associated with the double merle!

The way merling affects coat colour is pretty random, so the look of the coat is secondary to the actual genetic affects of double merle genes. Some people claim that coloured patches over eyes or ears will "prevent" a dog from being blind or deaf, but I personally don't believe that. So yeah, I would agree with that breeder's findings that a dog with double merling is a dog with double merling - regardless of the actual physical look of the dog and where the "white" appears on the dog, it's the genetics that are the issue, not the appearance of the fur itself.

[Boemy]

Are they like . . . sables who just have a ton of white? Or something genetically distinct from any other color patterns? Very pretty dogs!

[dogsarebetter]

I still like the solid white ones better. But I am not sure if I could handle the problems that may come. As far as behavior issues, we could work around that, im sure. But financially, I cannot have a very unhealthy dog that will cost loads in vet bills. I am sure pet insurance would not cover them.

Like I said before, hopefully it's 11 years from now before I have to worry about getting another dog. but you just never know!

[Beanie]

It's any colour sheltie with a predominance of white markings. You can technically even have a blue headed white rather than a double merle who just happens to have a coloured head.

Markings are genetic to an extent - Auggie has a distinct marking that his dad has, and another pup in a litter sired by his dad (but different mom obviously) has the same marking, for example, so it's pretty clear that particular markings CAN be passed on. But to what extent they are genetic, to what extent a white factored dog can produce a colour-headed white, isn't exactly clear.

Ahhh the fun of genetics!

[Romy]

Originally Posted by dogsarebetter

I still like the solid white ones better. But I am not sure if I could handle the problems that may come. As far as behavior issues, we could work around that, im sure. But financially, I cannot have a very unhealthy dog that will cost loads in vet bills. I am sure pet insurance would not cover them.

Like I said before, hopefully it's 11 years from now before I have to worry about getting another dog. but you just never know!

If you are getting an adult through rescue, there is a good chance you can find the right dog without millions of health problems.

Not every single double merle is going to be deaf and/or blind. It is entirely reasonable to expect you could find a byb or puppymill double merle that isn't deaf or blind, or may be only deaf/blind in one eye or ear. And while the chances of getting a 100% healthy sheltie through rescue isn't the best, I would think that if you spent time waiting for the right dog you could end up with one that has a reasonably stable temperament and okay health.