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  #11  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:27 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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chickens aren't livestock? lol

I've seen herding breeds herd children and other dogs... Thats not considered herding?

Unfortunately sheep are not plentiful in urban Socal...perhaps I'll have to find one. lol
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
chickens aren't livestock? lol

I've seen herding breeds herd children and other dogs... Thats not considered herding?

Unfortunately sheep are not plentiful in urban Socal...perhaps I'll have to find one. lol
Yes, chickens are. But dogs aren't.

No, the word herding applies to working livestock. But this day and age, the word is being used very loosely. So most farmers/trialers/breeders/trainers/whatnot, use the term 'working livestock'.
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Last edited by Lizmo; 07-30-2009 at 01:03 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:51 PM
hotdog2007 hotdog2007 is offline
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That is really interesting! So were dog breeds bred for a specific function by specifically choosing dogs that had some exaggerated parts of the sequence and some absent (or less exaggerated) parts of the sequence?

LOL, I have one dog that has more of the orient/eye stalk part of the sequence (border collie/hound mix?) and one that has more of the chase/grab/bite part of the sequence (lab/husky).



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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
It's one part of the sequence of predatory motor patterns in dogs. The sequence of this behavioral conformation basically includes: orient, eye stalk, chase, grab/bite, kill/dissect, consume. One behavior releases the next and that one releases or allows the next and that one precludes the next and so on. Different breeds of dogs have differently "shaped" behavioral conformation. Border Collies' motor patterns are interrupted after the eye, stalk and chase. They won't continue on with the bite, kill, dissect etc... (other than little nips) or they shouldn't. It has to do with breed development/selection and actually...where the adult onset and off set period starts in the brain. (the regulation of brain chemicals such as dopamine and seretonin from the pituitary...that's part of it)It is interesting that wolves have all of the sequence....all of the behaviors and dogs only have some of them. But the ones that dogs do have are much more intense or specialized than wolves'. They just don't hve the whole set.
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:53 PM
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I've seen sighthounds do a whale eye when they are hunting. Strider and the bull have a love/hate relationship, which is why he can't go in the pasture while they are out there. Through the fence, he will stalk up to the bull, half crouch, and give him a googly eye like I have seen border collies do. Then when the tension peaks he'll leap into the air and snap his jaws while snark roaring, which makes the bull run away from the fence.
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
That is really interesting! So were dog breeds bred for a specific function by specifically choosing dogs that had some exaggerated parts of the sequence and some absent (or less exaggerated) parts of the sequence?
LOL, I have one dog that has more of the orient/eye stalk part of the sequence (border collie/hound mix?) and one that has more of the chase/grab/bite part of the sequence (lab/husky).
Yes. Dogs were selected to do the jobs humans wanted and they'd choose dogs with exaggerated behavioral patterns they liked.

If this is of particular interest to you, you might like the book, Dogs, a new understanding of canine origin, behavior and evolution, by scientists, Ray and Lorna Coppinger. They discuss this at length.
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:02 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Yes. Dogs were selected to do the jobs humans wanted and they'd choose dogs with exaggerated behavioral patterns they liked.

If this is of particular interest to you, you might like the book, Dogs, a new understanding of canine origin, behavior and evolution, by scientists, Ray and Lorna Coppinger. They discuss this at length.
I had been trying to remember the name of that book. Thank you for the brain jolt.

I just bought it (isn't the internet amazing...three second purchase) for like 5 bucks used on amazon. Can't wait to get it
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
I had been trying to remember the name of that book. Thank you for the brain jolt.

I just bought it (isn't the internet amazing...three second purchase) for like 5 bucks used on amazon. Can't wait to get it
Oh! Heh, heh Crio. It's a great book. You'll love it. (well, some people find it agonizingly detailed, but I like that stuff) Their theory on evolution is very compelling but it is just that...a theory. There are a few stumbling blocks with their theory that another small group of scientists find. And their theory is also very logical sounding. In fact, to me....more logical. Anyhow, the Coppinger's book is packed full of interesting information about various aspects of dogs. Let us know how you liked it once you read it. (That was a great buy too! $5.00! Wow!)
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #18  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:11 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Oh! Heh, heh Crio. It's a great book. You'll love it. (well, some people find it agonizingly detailed, but I like that stuff) Their theory on evolution is very compelling but it is just that...a theory. There are a few stumbling blocks with their theory that another small group of scientists find. And their theory is also very logical sounding. In fact, to me....more logical. Anyhow, the Coppinger's book is packed full of interesting information about various aspects of dogs. Let us know how you liked it once you read it. (That was a great buy too! $5.00! Wow!)

I like it too.

I get all my dog books used. I've got quiet the collection Most of the *used* books arrive new. Like people bought them and then never read them.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2009, 07:32 AM
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Buster does it sometimes, he can be quiet intense when he switches on but its really interesting to see him just slide up that extra level and really zone in on something.
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2009, 08:17 AM
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No other dog does the eye quite like border collies do. They're a very specialized breed in their herding style. You won't see a sheltie or a shepherd crouch and eye stock like you would a border collie. A lot of it has to do with what the breeds are bred for and how they're supposed to herd.

A lot has to do with imo intensity and prey drive more than 'herding'. Summer is a dog that will stare you down intensely. She's actually scared people (my roommates) because of it. Of course it's nothing compared to a bc, but she'll stalk other dogs and animals. She crouches, eyes them up and will circle and nip very deliberately. Obviously she has no herding breed in her background. What she does have though is a lot of prey drive. She's the dog that tries to climb the tree after the squirrel runs up it. I always think it's funny she's a toy dog because other than my shepherd, she's probably the most intense dog I've ever owned! I joke that if she was bigger her staring would really be frightening for people. Honestly none of my herders have really displayed this behavior. My shelties got rather mouthy at times. Trey is one that if you moved suddenly in front of him, his first instinct was to reach and nip your heels. When he and Nik were young they'd play with each other by chasing and biting the heels but neither of them stared each other (or anything) down.
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