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Old 07-30-2009, 12:41 AM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Default Tell me about "the eye"!

Sounds like a creepy movie huh?

I was researching BC and came across this term....giving "the eye"..

Like the dog freezes and stares at the livestock and then stalks closer to it (am I understanding that correctly)

Emma...my mystery mutt...does this. She will herd my Cockatoo and will herd the chickens....she gives them "the eye" until they move...then she directs them where she wants them...she never hurts them.

she does that slow stalking stuff too. Especially when the animal isn't looking.


Do other herding breeds display this behavior? Im very intriqued by this as no one so far has been able to venture a guess on my dogs breeds based on looks, so i'm turning to behavior....lol!

Aside from this issues with freeshaping this dog has been a dream to train. I often joke that she speaks english. Eager and intelligent, drivey too.

This is Emma..shes "corgi sized" lol



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Old 07-30-2009, 05:07 AM
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I've known other herding breeds that will do similar behaviors, but it is a whole different level of "eye" when you see a border collie do it. It can be downright creepy until you get used to it!
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:11 AM
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Yeah, Border collies are REALLY intense when they do it, and from my experience it's not something that mix breeds (my border collie/lab, for example) inherit. My Psyche doesn't do it.

I think it can also be a drive thing, too. Bella has an "eye" that she'll give to stock, or anything she's really interested in, but it's not the same as a border collie eye. It's much less intense, while still being pretty intense.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:11 AM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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so it is a herding breed trait tho?

I just only see it mentioned in Border collies and I doubt my dog has border in her.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:01 AM
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It's one part of the sequence of predatory motor patterns in dogs. The sequence of this behavioral conformation basically includes: orient, eye stalk, chase, grab/bite, kill/dissect, consume. One behavior releases the next and that one releases or allows the next and that one precludes the next and so on. Different breeds of dogs have differently "shaped" behavioral conformation. Border Collies' motor patterns are interrupted after the eye, stalk and chase. They won't continue on with the bite, kill, dissect etc... (other than little nips) or they shouldn't. It has to do with breed development/selection and actually...where the adult onset and off set period starts in the brain. (the regulation of brain chemicals such as dopamine and seretonin from the pituitary...that's part of it)It is interesting that wolves have all of the sequence....all of the behaviors and dogs only have some of them. But the ones that dogs do have are much more intense or specialized than wolves'. They just don't hve the whole set.
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:10 AM
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I thought BCs were intense . . . until I saw Buffy and then Kharma do it, lol. They are also stalkers extraordinaire. Kharma even creeps Shiva out when she does it. It's Kharma's favorite game to play and everyone's LEAST favorite game to play with her, but she doesn't give them a choice. I call it her game of "AHA! I've Got You Now!" game

When hunting, she and Bimmer both run through the entire sequence described by Dober.

Bimmer's stock style is really different though. He's mostly relaxed and it's very low key unless something thinks about balking him. Then he shows the teeth and they generally fall back in line . . . and maybe step a little faster, lol.

And seriously, I do a mean herding eye and stalk mode myself . . . I've used it successfully many times on the cows.
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Gotcha.


it never progresses to bite/kill etc. That surely points to a trait that is herding specific...and not just "dog"....right?

I've had a ferret walk up and bite this dogs nose and hang from it and gotten ZERO reaction. She continued to stare at it while we poured water on him to get him off her.
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:29 AM
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The Terrier could also be contributing to that behavior. Some Terrier breeds will do something very similar. Tallulah does, and APBTs have been used as stock dogs, so your Emma could be getting bits and pieces of that behavior from different places.

I suspect she gets a great deal of her cute factor from her Terrier side
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:58 AM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
The Terrier could also be contributing to that behavior. Some Terrier breeds will do something very similar. Tallulah does, and APBTs have been used as stock dogs, so your Emma could be getting bits and pieces of that behavior from different places.

I suspect she gets a great deal of her cute factor from her Terrier side
Haha thank you. And yes, that makes sence.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
I was researching BC and came across this term....giving "the eye"..

Like the dog freezes and stares at the livestock and then stalks closer to it (am I understanding that correctly)
Yes, this is a Border Collie staring (giving the 'eye) at her sheep.




Quote:
Emma...my mystery mutt...does this. She will herd my Cockatoo and will herd the chickens....she gives them "the eye" until they move...then she directs them where she wants them...she never hurts them.

she does that slow stalking stuff too. Especially when the animal isn't looking.
I feel the need to respond to this. The term herding ONLY relates to working LIVESTOCK. If the dog is 'herding' something other than livestock, it's only prey drive. NOT herding.

Quote:
Do other herding breeds display this behavior? Im very intriqued by this as no one so far has been able to venture a guess on my dogs breeds based on looks, so i'm turning to behavior....lol!
I'm not sure. I've seen a few times different GSDs and 2 Belgian Malinois working and they did not work the same as the Border Collies I've seen. They were more working with there bodies and mouths (gripping) then the croutching and eyeing the Border Collies do.
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