Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Grooming Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-25-2009, 04:54 PM
skittledoo's Avatar
skittledoo skittledoo is offline
Internet Warrior Ballz?!?
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 13,528
Default Clipping Nails- Snarling Dog (Doberluv please read)

I have an issue... Bamm is always super difficult when it comes to clipping nails. He will snarl and gets really stressed out and worked up. He smiled nastily at Cristy when we tried to clip his nails a minute ago. He has a basket muzzle on. I do have a soft fabric muzzle but even with it fitted he's managed to slip from that before so I prefer to use the basket muzzle... but... it's just awful everytime we have to clip his nails.

Here's my question. How can I calm him down and keep him from snarling and thrashing? I tried giving him some peanut butter, but that didn't help. Tried talking to him soothingly to no avail. We can handle the snarling as long as we can get him to stop thrashing... but anyways... I could really use some help.

eta: Doberluv... hope you read this. Cristy said you're really knowledgeable about clipping nails
__________________
Joey- Ibizan Hound
Cricket- Mexican Street dog (we think Xolo mix)
Bamm- BC mix
Not Named- Standard size coated Xoloitzcuintle
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-25-2009, 05:02 PM
bubbatd's Avatar
bubbatd bubbatd is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 64,812
Default

In your case , I'd have a vet do it until you can do it without stress . Do one nail a day .
__________________
A light for all who are crossing dark times.


http://mauzysmusings.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-26-2009, 12:21 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
Love My Mutt <3
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 13,146
Default

I really don't have any tips, except that Rosey used to be just that way. We'd always take her to the vet to get her nails done, where they have the techs to hold her down and clip her nails.

However, Thursday, I realized her nails were pretty bad, and said "screw it, I'll try it (never have, just my parents have)". Well, Rosey let me cut her nails!!!! She wasn't very happy, but she wasn't snarling or growling, she just hid her face and let me pick up her paws Mind you, I only did the front two paws, by that time she had had enough and wasn't letting me near her back paws. But, it is progress!
__________________
Ella: 3 year old female ferret
Nacho: ~8 year old male ferret

Goodbye, Rosey. You were the best girl I could have asked for. 10/15/96-03/08/13
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-26-2009, 02:17 AM
Zoom's Avatar
Zoom Zoom is offline
Twin 2.0
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 40,733
Default

Dr2Little had a great thread on how to desensitize dogs to Dremeling, in addition to Doberluv's great threads on how to trim nails as well.

I actually managed to Dremel Sawyer's nails today, something he's never let me do without a lot of fuss. I've been steadily messing more and more with his paws and nails lately and making a huge deal over that, without any tools in my hands. Then I used a coarse grit nail file the other day and got one paw done a bit (his nails were horrible). Cheza helped; after I got Sawyer to flop on his side, she just sat there and scratched his "sweet spot" on his neck so I could do what I needed to do while he got a bunch of loving.

What do you use to do his nails with? If it's a clipper blade, how sharp are the blades? He might just not like the pinching feeling that you get from a semi-dull set of blades?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-26-2009, 08:30 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

The standard desensitizing tricks didn't work on Ares. He'd been quicked a couple times and he just didn't trust anyone to do his nails.

What eventually did help him was when I had him out and wanted to clip his nails and there was something that had gotten his attention on the floor. He started sniffing around and I think found a few crumbs of spilled food. While he was distracted with his sniffing and scrounging, I was able to handle his feet and clip a couple nails.

I started tossing some food around the floor for him to sniff for every time I wanted to clip his nails and that kept him sufficiently distracted. I had to follow him somewhat, which was interesting, but doable.

Also, he and I have now gotten to a point where he will stand quietly while I clip. I always touch the clippers to his nail before cutting and watch his reaction. If he flinches, I know I'm too close to a quick to cut there. He knows that he doesn't have to snarl and bite and squirm for me to move away from the quick.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-26-2009, 11:25 AM
Dizzy's Avatar
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Sit! Good dog.
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 17,509
Default

Bodhi won't let me do her nails. No matter WHAT tactics I have tried. She is not a biter thank god, but she refuses to have them done.

I just make sure I exercise her on a hard surface every couple of weeks... odd solution, but it works

I chuck her ball up and down the drive a couple of times and it wears them down nicely

Failing that, I'm afraid it'd be pinning her down and doing them (ie vets), and I'm never going to do that. I've tried persistantly with treats, and soothing, and making it into a game for her, and rewarding.... you can do ANYTHING to the dog, just not her nails.

Next puppeh I have is getting it's nails done from day one
__________________
"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,912
Default

I'm sure I've written somewhere (but I can't find it) about my son's dog who was terrified/terrorized by the mere thought of having her nails clipped, due to a bad experience. She was so vicious due to fear that we couldn't get any vet to clip her nails without being anesthesized. Long story short....I spent about 4-5 days desensatizing her to the point where I could do a little token trimming and just gradually progressed to where she was completely okay with it. And then we moved onto a Dremel, which was a piece of cake. She really prefers the Dremel. But that must be studied thoroughly before you do that because it can be very dangerous.

That said, basically....break things down as many times as you can into as many smaller steps as you can make. In other words, you might sit on the couch with him and a bowl of ice cream and show him the clippers. Feed a spoonful. When he is comfortable seeing the clippers, stroke his feet and nails with your finger or hand. Feed a spoonful of ice cream. (or other highly tasty treat) Hold hands while you watch the movie. LOL.

Next day, do the same as you did before, only add in one more little baby step. Stroke his nail with the clippers. Feed. Praise. Do a little and stop while the goings good, while he's happy. Don't do more.

Next day, do all that which you did before, but now add a few more nails to stroke and maybe tap with the clippers. DO NOT CLIP YET. Make a big fuss...have a party, give wonderful treats for small progresses.

When and IF he's comfortable with the previous steps, try shaving off or clipping off the tiniest smiggen of a nail....JUST ONE NAIL. Reward and call it a day.

You get the idea. Baby steps. Reward for small successes and take your time. If the dog walks away, let him. Don't use force of any kind. If he wants ice cream or steak, he'll come back and let you do a little something in exchange. Slowly up the ante.
Make sure the clippers are sharp.

Something I wrote for someone else, but its on the Dremel.


Plan on taking a week or so to condition your pup to the Dremel. Clicker training is very helpful for this, but if you aren't using a clicker, you can still use the concepts. Here's what I did...or an aproximation of it:

Day 1...several times a day, lay the Dremel on the floor. Don't turn it on. If the dog so much as looks at it, say, "yessssss" and give a treat. Use tiny, tiny tid bits of hot dog or string cheese...something really yummy. Repeat if he looks at it again. Then don't treat for that. Wait. See if he'll take a step closer. "yessssss" and treat.

Day 2....Repeat day one and build on it. Once the dog is getting closer to it regularly, stop rewarding for that and wait. Wait until he sniffs it. "Yessss!" Treat and make a fuss.


Day 3...

Hold your dog in your lap on the floor and hold the Dremel in one hand....not turned on. "Yessssss" and treat/affection. See if you can touch his nail with it not turned on. Make a fuss and treat. Do this for just a minute or two several times during the day.

Day 4...

Then turn it on while holding it in your hand. "yessss" and treat/fuss over him if he comes close to investigate. Don't try to do anything overt to him with it. Just sit and hold it while it's running. Build on that. See if he'll come closer and sit in your lap while you're sitting on the floor. If not, turn it off and see if he'll get on your lap. Treat. Turn it on low speed so it's not too loud. "Yessss" and Treat, treat, treat and praise. If he's not too worried, you can try one light brush against the tip of one nail. Treat/praise. Try one more if he's fine with it and call it a day. Don't push it. You want to end when he's had a positive experience and not gamble that one more nail might be too much for him.

Day 5...

Repeat what you did on day 4 for a few sessions and depending on his acceptance of it, move forward a little bit. Do a couple of nails or a whole paw. Do another paw the next day. Never use any force or let the dog become frightened of it. You may have to go more gradually since you've already tried it but went a little too fast. You'll need to convince the dogs that it's worth it to get nails done.

My male Chihuahua doesn't exactly love getting his nails done, but goes along with it. He does however, guard the Dremel and will curl his lip and give off a little growl if another dog so much as walks past it when it's just sitting on a low table or floor. He's associated it so strongly with a party and high, high value treats, which with this dog is an obsession in itself.

Remember not to apply pressure with it and to do little, quick brushing-like sweeps...just 3 or 4 and move onto the next nail. You can come back to the first nail after you've finished the others on that paw. Too long or pressure can burn the heck out of them. If puppy has any pain associated with this, it can sabotage all your training efforts. You probably already know this. I presume you found out when you got the Dremel, but I thought I'd throw that in anyway.
__________________
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-01-2009, 08:13 AM
Athebeau Athebeau is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 663
Default

In addition to the great advise given take a good look at how you are approaching your dog. Take a deep breath, never fight with the dog yet also don't back down when they try to pull their paw away. Get yourself into the right frame of mind and relax. When a dog sees a nervous person approaching with nail clippers they are not going to trust that person. It's neat how much a confident person can do with dogs that are freaks for nails. I personally would be fighting a dentist coming at me with a drill giving off body language that they are nervous! I want to trust that person doing this procedure

We have a rescue dobe X that you could not touch his paws nor touch the top of his head without him freaking and snapping. It took patience, gaining trust and teaching him a proper stand and basic obedience to get him to over come his fear. He would not allow a Vet to touch his paws but my Sister worked with him in a positive manner and taught him to trust. He is now fantastic for anyone to touch his paws and do his nails. Just keep in mind don't fight the dog. It makes my skin crawl when I hear about so called professionals pinning dogs to clip their nails. That puts the dog in a fight, flight or freeze. Most dogs freeze so the person working with the dog "thinks" the dog has submitted. Old school thoughts but some still believe this. The poor dog is scared to death and nothing has been done to get the dog over it's fear instead the fear is compounded.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,912
Default

Quote:
It makes my skin crawl when I hear about so called professionals pinning dogs to clip their nails. That puts the dog in a fight, flight or freeze. Most dogs freeze so the person working with the dog "thinks" the dog has submitted. Old school thoughts but some still believe this. The poor dog is scared to death and nothing has been done to get the dog over it's fear instead the fear is compounded.
I know what you mean Ath. This is what I saw on television...an old school, high profile dog "psychologist"....He pinned a dog and forced him to have his nails clipped and the dog bit him 3 times in just a few minutes. Unbelievable.

If you take this very gradually, (shouldn't take more than a week or two) like I explained, being nervous or non-confident will be a non-issue because both of you will have been reinforced all along for teensy, weensy steps toward the final goal of being relaxed with cutting the nails. And each of those tiny steps of improvement will have served to equate a pleasant, bonding time complete with wonderful snacks. No nervousness or lack of confidence will even come up. Just don't rush through the steps. Only advance to more when the last thing you did is easy and comfortable for the dog and you. I don't think I'd have to act particularly confident with my dogs when I Dremel their nails. They're pushing each other out of the way to get on my lap to be the first in line. I kid you not.

And like I've said before, Jose` actually resource guards the Dremel from the other dogs if it's lying on a low table or on the floor....not when it's about time to do nails, but other times when nothing is going on and there it is sitting. Yup....little growls, a few teeth showing as he lies right next to it.

Anyhow, you will be confident. If you're not, it means you're doing something wrong....going too fast, pushing the dog toward something he's not ready for. And I agree that being nervous or tentative could make your dog think something is wrong and become that way too.

I have a different take on this:
Quote:
yet also don't back down when they try to pull their paw away.
In the beginning, when I was conditioning my dogs to the Dremel, (and when I was counter conditioning Tokie, who was balistic upon even seeing nail clippers in your hand) if they'd want to get out of my lap and go away, I did not force them to stay. I just sat there and waited and realized I probably was asking too much too soon. I waited and the dog would usually come back for the yummy treats I was using for this. I would just go back a step to where the dog was okay with what I was doing and then work up again.

Later, once my dogs were old hands at having their nails Dremeled or clipped, they had been doing it for a long time, I might tell them, "Nah...you stay put. Let's finish this." And I'd use a little force at that point because I knew they weren't afraid. They just wanted to get on with their lives and doing nails was cramping their style. LOL. But in the beginning, using any force can create an association of NO FUN AT ALL with doing nails and you want the whole thing to be as pleasant and rewarding as you possibly can. And that's a tall order with clipping nails. It's just naturally not that fun.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:15 PM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athebeau View Post
yet also don't back down when they try to pull their paw away.
I used to believe that. But with the corgis, it only made things worse. Ares now knows that if he fusses, I'll honor that. He might be fussing because of his aches and pains and the way I'm holding a foot or he might be fussing because I'm too close to a quick. But that fussing isn't just because he can - he has a valid reason, and for me to try to continue would cause him to not trust me.

This is a dog who used to need a muzzle for nail trimming and now he stands quietly and I barely need to hold his foot except to separate the toes.

Many dogs are sensitive to having their paw held - it might be ticklish, it might be painful, the angle it's being held at might be awkward, their balance is changed - whatever the reason, desensitizing them and building positive associations are what they need.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site