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  #51  
Old 07-27-2009, 02:07 AM
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Zoom Zoom is offline
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I have the feeling what Ufimych is aiming at is the breeds that were created and bred for centuries to be excellent hunters, guarders, herders, etc and now are nothing more than oversized lapdogs with nothing remaining of their background except physical resemblence and a few quirks that are ill-suited to the average owner.

There really isn't anything prettier than seeing a dog do the job it was originally intended for.

As far as dogs and owners being fat and lazy, again, don't think he was aiming so much at the people here on this board as the general public. Lord knows we've ranted often enough about how people are being so conditioned to seeing fat dogs that they cry neglect and starvation when faced with a dog of a proper weight. Same goes for the general public...how many times have we had huge threads about the sad state of obesity in this country due to lack of exercise and proper diet?

People are taking what the OP is saying far too personally, I think. Chaz is not a board of average pet owners for the most part. We're here because we're dog people...and there IS a distinct difference.
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  #52  
Old 07-27-2009, 05:36 AM
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elegy elegy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
I have the feeling what Ufimych is aiming at is the breeds that were created and bred for centuries to be excellent hunters, guarders, herders, etc and now are nothing more than oversized lapdogs with nothing remaining of their background except physical resemblence and a few quirks that are ill-suited to the average owner.
but at the same time, the world has changed tremendously. there simply isn't call or need for many dogs to be hunters, guarders, or herders. some yes, but not nearly the need there was years ago. and much of that hunting and herding and protection work has become sport more than necessity. so what are dogs to do when there is no call for them to be out running in a field all day?

i dunno, i'm very torn on the subject. the reality is that most pet owners don't want a dog with a lot of drive and energy and need for serious work. should dog breeds change to suit their lesser needs? i can't say that *i* want that. a dumbed down version of the dogs i love doesn't excite me at all. but at the same time, i can see why them existing is necessary.
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  #53  
Old 07-27-2009, 07:15 AM
Fran27 Fran27 is offline
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You know, even after skipping through these 6 pages, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the fundamental difference between a dog and a human.

Dogs are not sentient. They really couldn't care less whether they are neutered or not.

Zoom actually, most people would laugh at the OP. People here are offended because the OP is talking to people who treat their dog like family. The average dog owner doesn't... and either they're too lazy to neuter or don't want to pay for it, or they do it for the convenience of not having to deal with heats or having a male spray or trying to escape all the time. I don't see any problem with it.
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  #54  
Old 07-27-2009, 07:20 AM
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I think this poster is nothing more than a troll trying to get everyone all riled up. His rude ways won't be changed anymore than any of ours. SI think it should be dropped and he ignored. He will let it go then, when he gets no more responses.
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  #55  
Old 07-27-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran27 View Post
You know, even after skipping through these 6 pages, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the fundamental difference between a dog and a human.

Dogs are not sentient. They really couldn't care less whether they are neutered or not.

Zoom actually, most people would laugh at the OP. People here are offended because the OP is talking to people who treat their dog like family. The average dog owner doesn't... and either they're too lazy to neuter or don't want to pay for it, or they do it for the convenience of not having to deal with heats or having a male spray or trying to escape all the time. I don't see any problem with it.

Dogs are sentient, they have feelings and emotions. They just aren't sapient, as in intelligent and self-aware in the sense that humans are. Those words are misused a lot, thanks to sci-fi conventions that came about when animals were presumed to be automotons.

However, the point is correct, I don't think the dog cares if they are fixed or not . . . indeed, considering they have no ego to speak of, its probably a relief. Sarama was not happy when she was in heat. I didn't know Docket before he was fixed, but I suspect it must be easier to live without all those powerful urges.

I think the "average dog owner" spays or neuters their dog because, primarily, they are supposed to. Lets not conflate "average" with "lowest common denomenator." At least in this area, most people s/n, unless they are intending to breed or are bad owners. This is a mistake a lot of ARistas make . . . they assume that average pet owners are bad ones . . . my experience is that average pet owners are not up to my standards, but they do ok. And at least here, they s/n. To be sure, they probably don't want the nuisence of an intact animal, but s/n animals are now the norm.
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  #56  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:05 AM
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My neutered male is far from lazy. He is THE most driven and intense animal I have ever owned and I have had border collies my whole life so that is saying something. I fail to see how me altering my pets makes them or me fat or lazy. Meh, who cares anyway. I am not here to please some neglectful dog owner.
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  #57  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:09 AM
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for me...its more a case of i truly cannot stant hypocrites...
and here we have a poster calling many of US on this board biased and hypocryits (partially based on the fact that wed get our dogs spayed and netuered but wouldnt do it to ourselves (and many here have had their tubes tied, vasectomies (which arnt quite as extreem) and even hysterectomies, which are the same as a full spay)
however the op then does NOT read the responces and shows the exact same biased and hypocrisy as they are claming we have.

ive not yet read a real responmce from this op that has any kind of even acnowledgement that other people are allowed to have their own opionons, that hes even READ the responces even, each reply is to simply state that dogs that live inside (and the op has stated in previous threads in fewer words that they feel companion dogs are pointless because they dont have a real job...) is not a real dog, its frou frou and the people keeping that dog would be better to kill it tham live such a miserable life.

that to me is NOT what this forum is about.
expressing an opinion is one thing...
but the op has clearly stated they would rather let nature take its course...let a dog DIE before taking it to the vets because thats what life is about, if the dog cant survive the way the op thinks EVERY dog should live it has no right being alive and in this world.

we all have our different veiws on how a dog should be kept, but can anyone on this board other than the op truly say they would sit back and watch their dog die simply because its the natural thing to do? could you sit back after a snake bite, seeing your dog in agony and NOT call the vet?

as ive stated before, i personally dont feel the dog has to be seen by a vet for every little thing. i only titer every 3 years, heck my dogs dont even get their rabies vacination thanks to a severe allergic reaction in both the cresties...
they do NOT go for an anual check up ect...
they go in for emergencies...
if/when i do actually have a litter comming they go in before hand for an xray...i like to have an aproximate number to expect so i know if theres any problems...
if there REALY sick...they go to the vet...ect
i have no problems treating an uset tummy with a bit of pepto or pumpkin, no issues waiting to see if a limp is just a limp or if its a persistent problem that needs seeing...
BUT when they NEED to they see a vet, plain and simply...

i NEVER want to be the kind of owner that would rather let their dog suffer because thats "natures way"

and im one of those nature loving crazy pagans who belive the natural way of life is amazing....

but no...
if this had been many newbies that come to the board and say "my dog got bitten by a snake should i take it to the vets?" there would be a resounding YES...

the op came onto the board and actually said in one of the first pages of the first post ever that his dogs are essentially so healthy they DONT have to see a vet EVEN FOR SNAKE BITES...

it bewilders me...
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  #58  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:10 AM
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Lilavati, it's what I meant by the average dog owner... most of them neuter because it's convenient and easier to deal with a neutered pet. I didn't mean it in a negative way. The part that is too lazy/doesn't care etc are the 'lowest common denominator' I'd guess.
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  #59  
Old 07-27-2009, 10:12 AM
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Relax everyone.
I think the best way to have
a nice and respectful debate
is to keep emotions out of it.
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  #60  
Old 07-27-2009, 10:15 AM
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that works if it is a debate... there is no debate here..
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