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  #21  
Old 08-28-2005, 08:47 AM
Manchesters
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What about hips and eyes? This female should have had preliminary hip xrays, and should be CERFd also. That crap about not showing is another way of saying BACKYARD BREEDER. And BE SURE the parents hips, eyes and hearts were checked out. Standards have the same problems as Dobes.....hips, eyes, cardio. Not sure about vWD. TESTS, TESTS, TESTS, TESTS. Also you want a lifetime warranty against inherited diseases!!!!!!!

AND A COPY OF THE PEDIGREE!!!! Old Dog can tell you if the pedigree is any good or not. I don't know diddley about Poodle bloodlines!
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  #22  
Old 08-28-2005, 09:32 AM
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juliefurry juliefurry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchesters
What about hips and eyes? This female should have had preliminary hip xrays, and should be CERFd also. That crap about not showing is another way of saying BACKYARD BREEDER. And BE SURE the parents hips, eyes and hearts were checked out. Standards have the same problems as Dobes.....hips, eyes, cardio. Not sure about vWD. TESTS, TESTS, TESTS, TESTS. Also you want a lifetime warranty against inherited diseases!!!!!!!

AND A COPY OF THE PEDIGREE!!!! Old Dog can tell you if the pedigree is any good or not. I don't know diddley about Poodle bloodlines!
She said that all her dogs were tested and I would get proof of that when I got the puppy (or adult dog). She said she never got into showing her dogs. She said that I will get a warranty and a pedigree and papers as well (the adult dog had already been registered). I haven't even met this woman just spoke on the phone a couple times and emails I have talked to one other breeder though as well.
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  #23  
Old 08-28-2005, 10:33 AM
gaddylovesdogs gaddylovesdogs is offline
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Good luck Julie! This is really exciting...if you do get a standard, you HAVE to post pictures ASAP! They are some of the greatest dogs...
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  #24  
Old 08-28-2005, 10:35 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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I doubt that you can get a lifetime warrenty against genetic health problems. I don't know how it is with Poodles, but with Dobes, all I could do was look at the past lines and see if they were RELATIVELY healthy. For instance, DCM and cancer is in ALL lines of Dobermans....they don't all get it, but the genes are there because the gene pool from which they are all bred, is small. I suspect it's the same thing with all purebred dogs. I couldn't expect someone to guarantee something like that.

Look online and find out about the genetic health issues and then, IF you trust your breeder (I'd be suspect if she has no titles on any dogs and wouldn't choose this breeder) ask about past dogs in the lines of the dog you're interested in. Ask to see proof of genetic health tests.

Dobermans don't have too much problem with hip dysplasia, but can have it. It's just not a very widespread problem like it is in some other breeds like GSDs etc. Again, I don't know about Poodles so I'd encourage you to get on the breed club and AKC site and see what you can find out. I do know about the retinopathy and blindness thing and think I read somewhere about Von Willebrands, but not sure. That's a bleeding disorder which in breeds other than Dobes is usually very serious. With Dobes, it's very, very prevelent, but not usually as serious a form. (but sometimes)

Anyhow, I'd be very careful about this breeder. I know that showing isn't everything but if a breeder is really into improving the breed (which is why a breeder should breed and that's the only reason they should) then they would want to know how their dogs measure up, according to judges who are experts at judging and how their dogs stack up against other Poodles. Some obedience titles and field work shows that the dogs have the temperament and brains in line with what they were bred to do....work along side man. Conformation titles say that the dogs in the lines have exemplary conformation and that is important in breeding to keep the dogs adhearing to the standards. Poor conformation results in skeletal ill health and wavering off the standard. At any rate, not showing any dogs smells of back yard breeder to me.

I realize that in some cases, the breed clubs have caused deteriorating quality in their breed, IMO, the GSD, for one. However, I don't believe that is the case with all breeds, not at all. The standards are there and they are usually a good thing to measure by and that's why showing and titles and all that shows that the breeder is striving to meet the standards set forth.

There are plenty of other breeders out there who are reputable. I'd keep on checking. It can prevent pre mature heartache, not to mention vet bills up the ying yang later on.
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2005, 11:55 AM
Fran27 Fran27 is offline
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I have to disagree... Grammy never showed her dogs but she did all the tests too, and that doesn't make her a bad breeder... In my opinion, as long as the parents have got all the testing done, you know that the line is healthy, and you don't want to show your dog, it doesn't matter if the parents were showed or not. I have nothing against people who breed healthy dogs as pets - not as show dogs. I'll never really understand why people think that all breeders should work so hard on improving the breed when all the puppies will be sold on spay/neuter contract and will never be used for breeding anyway?

But yeah again, it comes back to everyone's definition of a responsible breeder etc... But I certainly wouldn't discard a breeder because they don't show.
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  #26  
Old 08-28-2005, 01:00 PM
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It's not that she has NEVER shown dogs. She said many, many moons ago she used to show for a short time and she never really got into it. So her two dogs that she has now have never been in shows. She only breeds every other heat (if that) she said. And she's going to be looking into getting another female because her's is getting fairly old. I am talking to another breeder of standards as well though. I am not just going to jump on the first standard that comes my way I really want to make sure I don't go to a BYB.
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  #27  
Old 08-28-2005, 03:06 PM
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I think if some of the dogs in the lines have been shown, that can be fine. In fact, some of the very reputable breeders I spoke with prior to getting my Dobe did show their dogs, but there would be one here and there, even the one who was being bred who was said to not like showing....hated the ring. But this dog had a sire and/or dam who had been awarded titles.

Even if a dog is being bred as a pet and will be spayed/neutered, all dogs should be bred with the intent to make each litter better than the last generation...improve on the breed. There are already enough dogs being born all the time that breeding dogs should be done very, very carefully and not bred just to make more puppies. Look at all the puppies out there who don't have homes. IMO.

I'm sure there are some breeders who are so familiar with their breed and so consciencious as to breed very high quality, healthy dogs with excellent conformation and temperaments. But there are also many, many more byb who are not at all consciencious and haven't a clue what they're doing. So, this is why I say to watch out and see if the dogs have something to go by, some standard to guage by...such as show records/titles etc along with all the appropriate health testing/temperament testing etc. Those titles tell you something, that compared to other dogs of this breed, this dog has been shown to be quite superior according to some judges who are expert in that breed. It's awfully hard to tell if a breeder is the conscienctious type or not without anything to show for it, unless a buyer is an expert in choosing a dog and even then, without health testing proof, how do you know? That isn't even a guarantee that the dog won't get some genetic problem but it's a step in the right direction....it helps with the odds.
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  #28  
Old 08-28-2005, 03:10 PM
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I have been looking at rescues for standards but they are so picky when it comes to who their dogs are adopted out to. I sent in an application and just as I suspected they said that because our house wasn't fenced they couldn't allow their dog to go to us also they were concerned we had other dogs as well. I think my husband would feel more secure going with a breeder as well. We had such iffy experiences with the two dogs that we have from shelters he doesn't want to adopt anymore.
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  #29  
Old 08-28-2005, 06:30 PM
Athebeau Athebeau is offline
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Just because a dog has won Championship titles at conformation dog shows does not mean it's a healthy dog.

Last edited by Athebeau; 08-28-2005 at 07:02 PM.
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  #30  
Old 08-29-2005, 07:10 AM
bridey_01 bridey_01 is offline
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Personally I wouldn't be at all worried if a breeder didn't show their dogs. Then again, up until I got Azlan I would usually only buy border collies or kelpies from farmers. I would be most concerned with health and temperament tests, and if all that was clear I wouldn't much care how the dog stacks up against others of it's breed, that is unless you are actually concerned if the dog is an inch or two taller or has a spot of white where she shouldn't.
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