Eye shapes

[CharlieDog]

The sensitivity of lighter eyed dogs to the sun may have to do with lack of pigment on the back of the eye.

I have blue eyes, and I was very blonde as a child. Apparently, this lack of darker pigment causes the backs of my eyes to have less pigment. Its called a "blonde" eye and it has causes me to be more sensitive to bright lights. I have to have prescription tinting lenses. In especially bright sun its very painful and even with the special lenses, very hard for me to drive and function normally.


Anyway, something to consider. Also, my hair and eyes have darkened as I aged, but apparently the pigment in my eyes (or the backs) hasn't.

[colliewog]

OK, this will be a quick hijack to the 'eye' thread ... sorry!!

Originally Posted by Spiritwind

I agree about limiting an already small gene pool, by banning breeding of roughs x smooth, but for some reason they now consider them two separate breeds. It really does not make a lot of sense. From what I understand, the rare chance of a rough puppy being produced in a smooth x smooth breeding, even though genetically it is a rough (carries 2 recessive rough genes.. no smooth genes) it has to be registered as a smooth, and cannot be bred. It really doesn't make any sense at all!
.

I was told that this had to do with how their show system works. They offer a certain number of Challenge Certificates (equivalent to our CH?) each year, and when the smooths and roughs were one, that meant fewer dogs could obtain a CC. So they split them up, thus allowing them to have twice as many. Of course, with that, you are now a separate breed and therefore cannot interbreed. I just recently saw that the smooths are considered a 'Vulnerable Breed', meaning that the breed is dwindling in numbers.

The criterion for being listed as vulnerable is breed registrations with an overall trend of fewer than 300 per year (in the UK) over a period of ten years. The Smooth Collie is one of the native British and Irish Breeds listed as vulnerable - in 2006 the number of registrations was 53, in 2007 63 and in 2008 just 43 registrations.

The Smooth Collie - a vulnerable breed

[colliewog]

Originally Posted by CharlieDog

The sensitivity of lighter eyed dogs to the sun may have to do with lack of pigment on the back of the eye.

I have blue eyes, and I was very blonde as a child. Apparently, this lack of darker pigment causes the backs of my eyes to have less pigment. Its called a "blonde" eye and it has causes me to be more sensitive to bright lights. I have to have prescription tinting lenses. In especially bright sun its very painful and even with the special lenses, very hard for me to drive and function normally.


Anyway, something to consider. Also, my hair and eyes have darkened as I aged, but apparently the pigment in my eyes (or the backs) hasn't.

That's what I was wondering. I too have blue eyes and they are sun sensitive, but my brown-eyed friends don't seem to be. Could be a coincidence, but who knows??

[Spiritwind]

Originally Posted by colliewog

OK, this will be a quick hijack to the 'eye' thread ... sorry!!



I was told that this had to do with how their show system works. They offer a certain number of Challenge Certificates (equivalent to our CH?) each year, and when the smooths and roughs were one, that meant fewer dogs could obtain a CC. So they split them up, thus allowing them to have twice as many. Of course, with that, you are now a separate breed and therefore cannot interbreed. I just recently saw that the smooths are considered a 'Vulnerable Breed', meaning that the breed is dwindling in numbers.



The Smooth Collie - a vulnerable breed

This is rather interesting... I've talked to several breeders in Europe and so far I have not heard about this. I will have to ask some of them..

If this is the case, I its a rather stupid reason to separate the varieties into different breeds. Cut the already limited gene pool down even more.

Though, from what I understand, even when they could do rough x smooth breedings, very few smooth people bred to roughs, because of the lack of quality, poor structure and movement, along with poor temperaments. Breeding a smooth to a rough really had no benefits to the smooth breeder, because the roughs are a less quality animal than the smooth.

However, as far as the European bred smooths go, many of them lack the correct amount of undercoat needed for a working dog. They have a real flat, slick, thin coat.. I've had several breeders I've talked to say they think American smooths have to much coat... however they also say their dogs get cold in the winter months so are not real good for working in the winter. Funny thing is, my smooths who apparently have to much coat (to them) I've never once seen them get cold, or even shiver. They love the cold weather and to roll around and sleep in the snow.

A breeder I know in Canada sold a smooth champion to Finland several years ago. After the dog finished his champion and was out for a bit, he is now retired and I believe just a stud dog, but since he is no longer showing, the owners in Finland SHAVES down the smooth every summer because they think he has to much coat and gets hot in the summer..... stupidest thing I've ever heard of!! Poor dog!

I really don't understand the system over there. They can't do rough x smooth. Any roughs that MIGHT be produced from a smooth x smooth breeding cannot be registered as a rough, even though that is what it is, genetically. They also are not supposed to do sable x blue merle breedings.. and if they do, any sables from the litter cannot be registered. I guess the kennel club over there thinks the breeders can't tell the difference between a sable and a sable merle. Really NOT that hard to do at all! They also seem to think Color Headed Whites are defective, just like double dilutes.

It doesn't surprise me about the smooth being vulnerable in Europe. I know some countries only have a hand full of breeders.

I

[CharlieDog]

I absolutely believe that's the reason for wanting darker eyed dogs for work. If the dog is squiting and uncomfortable, then he's not going to be quite so willing to work on bright days. Maybe .

[Sapphire-Light]

Originally Posted by colliewog

That's what I was wondering. I too have blue eyes and they are sun sensitive, but my brown-eyed friends don't seem to be. Could be a coincidence, but who knows??

I have brown eyes, but they are in a very clear hazel tone.

I'm very sensitive to sun, and strong light so I have to carry an umbrella and sunglasses in sunny days.

My sister has dark brown eyes and is not sensitive to the sun.

so it looks like is more the intesinty than the color.

[colliewog]

Originally Posted by bubbatd

Why do I feel that larger breeds have kinder eyes ? Do any large breeds have round eyes ??

I can't find any large breeds who specifically state round eyes, but many of them only mention eyes qualities (set, etc.) in their standard but don't mention shape at all. To me, these breeds appear (to me) to have round eyes. Try looking at the large/giant breeds, especially of the mastiff type.

Originally Posted by Spiritwind

{snipped)

This is rather interesting... I've talked to several breeders in Europe and so far I have not heard about this. I will have to ask some of them..

If this is the case, I its a rather stupid reason to separate the varieties into different breeds. Cut the already limited gene pool down even more.

I had a really long post typed out about this and my computer froze up. I'm too lazy to re-type it, but basically, I found my resource for the CC comment.

It came from a book written by noted Collie historian, Iris Combe, called 'The Smooth Collie - a family dog. (The Collie Centre, Cambridgeshire, 1992). There is also information regarding the feelings on both sides regarding the interbreeding of the two breeds (varieties). Basically, many of the Rough breeders saw it as introducing a 'common' element into the breed, while many Smooth breeders felt it was ruining the special qualities of their pure Smooth (shepherd's or drover's) Collies. This was a big issue in the 1970s, with arguments and lulls here and there all the way up until the KC officially separated the breeds in 1994. It's a very informative book and I highly recommend it.