Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Breeding Ground


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 08-23-2005, 10:48 AM
showpug's Avatar
showpug showpug is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran27
My problem with AKC is that they are doing nothing to prevent puppy mills and backyard breeders, and you know why? Because they get money from those who register their litters. It just seems to me they don't care about the breeds, just about money... Having a registered pup really doesn't mean much does it?

I read an interesting article about it, I can't find it anymore though...
Out of sole curiosity, what do the other registries do to prevent them and is it free of cost to register puppies with the UKC or any other
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-23-2005, 10:49 AM
Manchesters
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default The AKC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il
Pugs, you're right. It's just a registry. Unfortunately, a breed having the AKC 'seal of approval' all too often is the death-knell for the integrity of the breed. I haven't seen the AKC do much in the way of emphasizing that some breeds are just NOT for most owners and there seems to be a significant amount of breeding down temperaments to create homogeny across the breed boards. I shudder to think of what will happen to the Neo now that it has received recognition - and all the subsequent publicity (without any appreciable mention of the fact that very few people are capable of being effective Neo owners).

And the conformation standards seem to morph drastically in some breeds. The German Shepherd, for one, is almost unrecognizable now.

And don't you find it a bit laughable that the AKC is just now 'recognizing' a breed that has been in existance as a unique breed for over 400 years?
Has nothing to do whatsoever with changes of any type in any breed. That fault lies directly in the laps of the breed clubs, who are the ones who formulate the standard for each breed. It is the show giving clubs, and the breeders who adulterate a breed. The club memebers vote to get judges that put up their type of dog. These judges get assignment after assignment even when it is known that they wouldn't recognize a good speciman of a breed if it bit them on their butts.

As for a breed being 400 years old, that doesn't do squat for establishing a stud book. You need at least 6 generations for a dog to be considered purebred (or at least that was what it used to be), and to establish a breed in the AKC stud books. I mean a 6 generation of "somebodys b!tchXsomebodys male ain't gonna tell ya diddley about the geneology of the dog! You need names and proof.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-23-2005, 10:53 AM
Manchesters
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Eeerrrrrrr.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by showpug
Well, I just don't know enough about the 400 year old breed to know if it's laughable or not. I don't know what the history of the breeding has been nor do I know when the breed clubs first tried to get it accepted by the AKC and so on.

There is no part of me that disagrees with what you have to say about some breeds within AKC, like the GSD's, BUT that is also a general statement about breeds in general and does not apply to all breeds registerd by the AKC. Everyone always reverts back to blaming the registry for the sins of the breeders, exhibitors and most of all, the breed clubs. I guess I am someone who feels responsibility should lie in the hands of the people, not the registry itself and that the people who love and work to preserve a breed should be ultimatley responsible for it's future, not the registry. It's up to the people that love the breed the most to control it. Unfortunatley GSD's are one of the most political breeds on the face of the earth and their breeders, exhibitors and breed clubs have allowed it to be taken too far and in turn let their dogs down.

I guess what bothers me is generalizing. Everyone always uses GSD's as an example, and they are a good one, but how about some others!

I urge those of you who are quick to judge the AKC to attend (NOT WATCH ON TV) a couple of dog shows and see what you think. Talk to the exhibitors and look at the breeds. Watch them move, watch the terriers spar in the ring to test their tenacity and so on. Get a feel for it and make your own mind up. I know some very honorable, ethical and protective people all of which I have met through showing in AKC. Many of them are very concerned with preserving a breeds original purpose.
Sparring has not been acceptable for years now.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-23-2005, 11:08 AM
showpug's Avatar
showpug showpug is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchesters
Sparring has not been acceptable for years now.
Strange, I pulled this from a current document on the AKC website regarding how judges' are to handle the show etc. Looks like it's still accepted, but maybe not practiced very often? I actually remember watching two scotties spar in January?

Sparring means bringing select dogs together, usually in the center of the ring, to stand naturally on their own. It is important that sparring be a controlled demonstration of the dogs' "Terrier attitude". Bring out only two dogs at a time to spar, maintain control, and do not allow handlers to use other dogs as bait. The dogs should be very alert, up on their toes, looking for whatever is going on.

Sparring can be an excellent way to ascertain both desirable and faulty temperament. Are the dogs feisty, congenial, tolerant, cowardly or aloof?

Sparring is not fighting. With a clearer understanding of its present-day meaning and application, it will be easier for everyone involved to see that sparring is a vital part of the dog show scene.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-23-2005, 11:11 AM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

Quote:
Out of sole curiosity, what do the other registries do to prevent them and is it free of cost to register puppies with the UKC or any other
I don't know about the UKC or others, but the Fila registries charge a fee. (Gotta find Kharma's papers and send them in one of these days . . . )

Quote:
Sparring has not been acceptable for years now.
That's an example of what I was talking about regarding promoting homogeny. It's certainly not limited to the AKC. There is a problem in Brazil with Fila show breeders being encouraged to breed down the temperament in their show dogs [shakes head].

Quote:
I haven't seen the AKC do much in the way of emphasizing that some breeds are just NOT for most owners and there seems to be a significant amount of breeding down temperaments to create homogeny across the breed boards.
This is my real gripe with the AKC. The general public looks to the AKC - at least here in the U.S. - as the be-all and end-all authority on dogs and they just aren't being responsible or realistic enough in their presentation of the different breeds.

I've met some people who were very involved in the AKC - the most recent was a former breeder of Ch. Dalmations - one of her dogs was chosen for the picture on the AKC's Visa card, lol, and judge. She shared some of my concerns. For the most part, it seems that the higher up in the echelons of the AKC the people I've met have been the more concerned they've been about some of the directions the breed standards are going and the seeming apathy that the problems are being met with.

Fortunately, I doubt we have to worry about Filas being accepted into the fold anytime soon. For one thing, I don't see all the Fila people agreeing on 100% of the standard, and for another, the Fila is a dog that is not required to allow the judge to touch it during showing
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-23-2005, 11:58 AM
Fran27 Fran27 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 10,316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by showpug
Out of sole curiosity, what do the other registries do to prevent them and is it free of cost to register puppies with the UKC or any other
I have no clue. My point was that registration just really doesn't mean anything, because registered doesn't mean quality. Although I am curious, what does it take to register a litter? Do parents have to be registered?

Boris is registered, we just never bothered sending back the $20 papers because we're not planning on showing him, but we really didn't get him from a responsible breeder .
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-23-2005, 12:37 PM
showpug's Avatar
showpug showpug is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran27
I have no clue. My point was that registration just really doesn't mean anything, because registered doesn't mean quality. Although I am curious, what does it take to register a litter? Do parents have to be registered?

Boris is registered, we just never bothered sending back the $20 papers because we're not planning on showing him, but we really didn't get him from a responsible breeder .
Fran...you are 100% correct when you say that registration does not guarantee quality. I could not agree with you more and more often than not, dog owners think it does!

When you register a litter, both parents must be registered with the AKC. There are some DNA requirements now as well, in certain situations.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-23-2005, 03:26 PM
beagle_lovergirl's Avatar
beagle_lovergirl beagle_lovergirl is offline
Stare at my avatar....
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,969
Default

OK, I leave for school and you guys start talking about something completely different? Lol, so I guess I'll have to register her again? Ok, BTW the reason I want to register her is because I DO plan on showing her and even some Obedience and Agility.
__________________

It's all fun and games until someone loses and eyeball...then it's PING PONG!!!

Dain bramaged
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-23-2005, 04:02 PM
showpug's Avatar
showpug showpug is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beagle_lovergirl
OK, I leave for school and you guys start talking about something completely different? Lol, so I guess I'll have to register her again? Ok, BTW the reason I want to register her is because I DO plan on showing her and even some Obedience and Agility.
That's great, good for you!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-23-2005, 05:00 PM
Manchesters
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It is not an acceptable practice. It is in the info on judging, but the practice has been discouraged because it gave spectators the impression that AKC was promoting dog fighting. I don't go to hardly any shows anymore, but I cannot recall the last time I even saw sparring going on. My friends who had Kerrys were against it also years ago. It got their dogs all hyped up for nothing.

At the time, George and Angie had the top producing Kerrys in the history of the breed! And it was only the Terriers that were sparred. Just about every breed except for Manchesters, which are a nonsparring breed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site