Questions about feeding RAW

I have done some research and have decided that a raw diet would be beneficial to my dogs.
My questions are how do you start to feed raw? Do you do it gradually or all at once?
What are good foods to start with? Do dogs need veggies, fruits, and grains in their diet or just meat? What I have read gives conflicting information on the veggie issue.
If anyone could give me any advice as a beginner it would be greatly appreciated.

All my research was done on dog forums and by typing in feeding raw or BARF. I do plan on picking up a book as soon as I figure out who has the right information in their book!

Thanks,
Adrienne

First of all, a raw diet isn't right for every dog.


You probably shouldn't start cold turkey. You just add the raw diet ingredients into the "regular" pet food. You probably will see some moist or runny poop when starting as your dog(s) are getting used to it.

We do meat (of course)...usually chicken, turkey or beef. Yes, dogs need vegetables and fruits. I make a mush of veggies (carrots, broccoli, etc.) in bulk. Fruits I don't feed much of...just as snacks now and then.

Raw requires a LOT of research. I can recommend some books and sites if you'd like.

When you say it isn't right for all dogs may I ask what you mean?

Can you feed things like chicken drumsticks, chicken wings, and thighs?

I would be very thankful for any links or other resources. As I said, a lot of the information I found contradicted from one source to the next. Hard to straighten out what is correct information.

I appreciate your response.

Adrienne

I'm feeding raw and did a lot of searching about it... going cold turkey is not too good, I first switched from kibble to homecooked and then from homecooked to raw. I followed the 10% rate to switch food, that is, every day you substitute 10% of old food with 10% of new food, so in a matter of 10 days the switch is complete.

Its right that raw isn't great for every dog so you will have to start slow and introduce new foods one by one to see how your dog will react.
There are a lot of books and stuff out there for you to research, here are some articles that helped me out:

http://pet-grub.com/preface.pets
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/35/07645176/0764517635.pdf
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm#canine

My dogs eat meat (turkey, chicken, beef, organs -once a week-, fish -once a week), veggies (put them in the food processor), fruits (not so often as treat or as juice), grains (brown rice and oats -not too often or too much-), yogurt (every once in a while), bones (raw, beef or chicken, I don't feed them everyday and always supervise) and eggs (once a week), they also get a teaspoon of fish oil as a complement of vitamian A, D, they get vitamin C and calcium complement...
This diet was something I worked out with my vet and we read a lot about raw feeding, the amount is something like this: daily: 1/2 meat, 3/4 veggies and 1/4 of something else (grain, yogurt, fruit, whatever else).

My beagle will eat two cups of food a day and my mini schnauzer will eat one.

They are very healthy and have shiny coats, they're not overweight and it seems to work for them...

I forgot to tell you that there are a some good books you can purchase on Amazon:
- Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats
- Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats: The Ultimate Pet Diet
- Raw Dog Food: Make it Easy for You and Your Dog

They are really cheap!!!

kymythy schultze's book (the ultimate diet) is probably the best book for people who would like to get started with raw feeding. i don't agree with all of her points (e.g. never any grains, no dairy products etc. - even those can be beneficial!), but the book is well written and easy to follow.

another book i really like is monica segal's "k9 kitchen your dog's diet: the truth behind the hype", since she is unbiased towards any particular ways of feeding and points out the weak and strong points alike. it's available from sitstay.com.

as for switching to raw - you can either start cold turkey or wean over slowly. it depends on the individual dog. keep a can of pureed pumpkin (not the spiced pie filling mix, just plain pumpkin) on hand to feed in case the dog develops diarrhea. a heaping teaspoon or two per meal quickly firm things up.

do not feed too much bone matter in the beginning, it can cause constipation. pumpkin works both ways, so it will also help in case that happens. constipation needs to be addresses as quickly as possible if it occurs, since the longer the fecal matter sits in the colon the more water is removed and it gets harder and harder. if the pumpkin doesn't help fairly quickly, a tablespoon of a good oil will likely do the trick.

Some animals do BETTER on kibble/wet etc..

Yes. We actually have a cookbook written by our vet, which we go by. The recipes involve chicken or turkey necks and backs, and wings.

You should look into the Innova EVO to see if that may suit your needs for your dog. I have a pamphlet on it. I give you some highlights to see if you may be interested in this:

-Highest meat content of any dry dog food.
-Chicken, Turkey, Herring, and eggs
-Low Carb
-Chicken fat and Herring
-Fresh vegetables, fruit and cottage cheese
-a "synbiotic" approach to gastrointestinal health
-optimum amounts of essential vitamins & minerals
-slow cooked to perfection
-finely ground bones in a crunchy kibble - aid in keeping teeth clean and gums healthy, naturally
-ready to use - Innova EVO is almost like having raw food in a bag. It is convenient to feed and requires no preparation or clean-up. (This is what the pamphlet says.)

If you don't know exactly what you are doing in feeding your dog a raw diet, it may be better to go with a food like this than to risk leaving out some key nutrients of your dog's health. I don't know what I am doing, so I would prefer to go with this to make sure he is getting the optimum nutrition that I can give him. He loves it too. I have him on the regular Innova, but they gave me samples of this and he loved it so I will probably get this next time. You can look it up on

www.naturapet.com

There are also some good products that you can add to the meat you provide that will round out a raw diet. www.sojos.com

Personally, I feed the Innova EVO. Mine are thriving on it, they love it, and it's very cost effective with two very large dogs and one medium sized dog.

The main problem I see with many raw diets that the EVO addresses is that most people can't obtain organic components for their dogs. Commercially produced meat is full of garbage. We raise Angus cattle and you wouldn't believe the stuff they want us to inject and feed our cattle with in the Certified Angus program. Hormones, antibiotics and all sorts of junk. Needless to say, we don't participate! And I would never feed my dogs liver or kidneys from commercially raised carcasses. Those organs are the filtration systems for the body and all the toxins collect there. Then you feed them to your animals?

And please read the sticky thread on raw feeding if you haven't already. I had no idea that this potentially fatal problem existed. Fortunately, it's easily avoided by freezing the meat thoroughly before feeding.

Best of luck however you end up feeding. You can't go wrong with Mordy's advice!

We go to a holistic veterinarian and asked her about feeding "regular" meat. They said that is what most people feed--it's pretty impossible for us to feed three large dogs organic meat. They do get organic veggies now and then. If we could feed organic meat, you bet we would. There is a bunch of crap in foods that aren't organic. We get the best meat that is not organic as much as possible.

Thank you everyone for the wonderful advice and different views on this topic. I will continue to do research and I had already read the link for the Raw Food, very interesting...it is good to know that freezing the meat will help cut down on that type of problem.

At this point I will be doing a part kibble part raw diet. So far both of my dogs seem to be doing fine on this, no diarrhea, vomiting, etc. Their poop is nice and firm with no signs of constipation. Also my GSD puppy's coat has already had a noticable improvement.

Thanks again for all the great advice and links. Thankfully I love to research things and will continue to do so as there is always new information available.

Adrienne

p.s. I always have canned pumpkin on hand for my three bunnies, they get it once a week and more often when molting. Pumpkin is fantastic!!

Gaddy, here's a real shocker for you, and it should save you some money as well. The more expensive meats, like certified Angus, typically have more required tampering in pre-slaughter production. I use the Angus as an example because we've been "encouraged" to follow the system - yeah, right! Many times you're better off with the less popular, cheaper types of beef because it's been handled more cheaply pre-slaughter, meaning no hormones and shots in the young calf stage. Once an animal gets to a feed lot all bets are off though. The feeds even have additives.

Can I just say that you can change over to raw feeding 'cold turkey' it is completely different from changing kibbles. Also, however scared you are of going down the BARF route, do not feed kibble and raw in the same feeding times. It will do no harm but, raw and cooked ie; kibble have a different digestion period, this is what causes upset tums etc, not the change over. At least 40% of you raw feed should be rmb, with 30% muscle meat, good protein and calcium from 2 or 3 raw eggs per week (including shell) The shell is what all calcium products are measured against.

I have 7 Labradors who thrive on raw, but not all dogs do, it is not for everyone.
Balance has to be maintained in protein, ideally not over 22%, and the calcuim/phosphorous ratio is difficult to get right.

Dogs cannot digest fruits or vegetables, to get any benefit the MUST be puried in a juicer, but raw carrots etc are great training treats without the calories.

I wean my puppies onto raw from 3 weeks onward, they can suck a chicken wing to death, by 8 weeks they are munching and devouring them

ps, this is my 1st post, so be easy on me with your replies

Good post, Kayc, whether it was your first or your thousandth! Very practical and "digestable" information!

Now I know that I read somewhere on a link about raw food that you can put apple cider vinegar in their water and it is beneficial in some way. Of course I can't find that link so if anyone can shine any light on the situation I would really appreciate it!

ACV contains a lot of trace minerals and other nutrients. it's very healthy.

you can also use it topically for a variety of problems, for example to clean ears.

Ok, what is a raw diet...may i ask? Is it exactly what it sounds like? If you feed raw meat must you cook it first? I don't know about raw diets, so excuse me for sounding like an idiot (I'm used to feeding out of a bag). I am just a little curious at what it is and why people would feed it to their dog. Thanks!

juliefurry - a raw diet is just that - raw meats, bones, veggies etc.

if you cook it, it's not raw anymore. that would be a homecooked diet, which is also a possibility, but different. you never want to feed cooked, roasted or otherwise processed bones ever.

as for why you'd feed it to your dog? it's the most natural thing for them to eat, simple as that. however, that does not necessarily mean that a completely raw diet is the best thing for every individual dog.

i'd also like to address another statement i previously missed:

it is actually incorrect that cooked and raw foods digest at different rates. at least with over 4 years of studies in nutrition under my belt, i have not found any validating, conclusive proof, even tho it is an often cited statement on many raw feeding boards and lists.

different nutrients are affected differently by heat and i know of too many people with regular feeding regimens including cooked and raw foods who do not have problems at all. stomach upsets result from a dog not being accustomed to a particular food, or allergies/sensitivities, but not particularly from raw and cooked items digesting at different rates.

Question for Mordy about the ACV...I just got a link from another member of the forum and it talks about ACV...here is what is says...

ACV is Apple Cider Vinegar...the cultured type, bought in Health Food stores, not the kind you get at the supermarket off the shelf. ACV is used for aiding the immune system, helping to ward off fleas, etc. It is also good for the digestion of our animals. This can be put into their drinking water or mixed with their food.

http://www.critterchat.net/frequent.htm

so I am assuming that I am using the wrong kind then becasue I bought the Heinz ACV from our grocery store. Could you please let me know if I am using the wrong kind, I would really appreciate it.