making him walk right

ive posted a couple times on here about my husky, hes a pretty big dog (almost to my hips and im 5'11) and he is a puller, and i know thats his instinct and what he was bred to do, but its to the point that hes hurting mylegs, knees and ankles, i want him to walk right on a leash and we've tried regular collars, choker collars, and even a 'no-pull harness' which he ironically still pulls with, again i know thats what he was bred to do but my mom's next step is to get a prong collar and i think thats just a little unneccisary and it looks painful to the dog....anyone got any tips or suggestions?

thank you
brian

Hi Brian. There are LOTS of great loose leash threads on the forum, if you use the search option. But, in case you didn't find anything to your liking...

Prong collars are not supposed to be painful, if they're fitted correctly. They are, however, a training bandaid so to speak. They physically restrain the dog, without getting to the root of the problem, or really changing any behavior. I would work with a properly adjusted flat or rolled leather collar. I really like rolled leather collars, personally. Just adjust it at the top of the neck, so that two of your fingers can slip in between.

Ok... so... what do you do before the walks? Are walks your Husky's main source of exercise? Do you have a backyard? I highly recommend a good exercise session before you train your dog. Get him tired... not collapsing on the floor tired... but get out any excess energy. Bring yummy treats (hotdogs, cheese, liver, etc), and preferably a treat bag so that they're easy to hand out during your walk. Don't think of your walk as a destination, but rather a training session. Personally, I prefer to teach my dogs to heel before I get into loose leash... I think every dog should know the heel position, and know that sticking close is a behavior that is rewarded.

To start completely fresh teaching a dog to heel, I hold both hands at my left side (dog is on the left side) as a target, say the "heel" command, take two or three steps, stop, ask the dog to sit, and reward. After several successful repetitions, I take four steps. Then five or six. And so on. The key is keeping your dog interested, and sending him a clear message that "heel" means stick to my left side like glue, and you'll get lots of praise and rewards.

Here are a few good loose leash walking links:

http://4pawsu.com/PawPrint/looseleash.pdf

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/lltotal.htm

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/pulling.htm

I will have to disagree with iheartgonzo, prongs are supposed to be painful or very uncomfortable, unlike no pull harnesses or head collars these do not make the dog easy to control while he pulls but make him not want to pull due to pain/discomfort. BUT you said you have used a choker which is FAR worse than a prong as chokers can and do cause physical damage to the dog's neck and spine.

I agree with Iheartgonzo on everything else. During the walk if the dog even comes near your side reward with a treat. I would continue to use a no-pull harness or head collar if you have trouble controlling the dog (he can actually drag you when you try not to move) and couple that with training, the collars are not supposed to train the dog, you need to do that. When the dog pulls you can do several things: Stand still until the dog allows slack, walk backwards or turn around and walk in the other direction. Pick one you like and stick with it for a few weeks and see if there is improvement, if not try a different one. when I do these I like to use a word as I stop or move backwards (I use "slooow") so that in the future when the dog gets too close to the end I can tell him I'm about to stop and they usually slow down (if they don't then you do whatever you have been doing like backing up) and then you don't have to stop, they figure out that they can slow down when you give the command and you will not stop.

The other thing you can do is use a clicker and click/treat each time the dog falls to your side (does not have to be heel position, just near your side). Use yummy, yummy treats like hot dog. So walk along and if the dog pulls turn and walk in the other direction, the dog will have to cross to your side to move up front so click right as his nose reaches your side and give him his treat (for a fast paced exercise like this make sure the dog really knows what the click means). As the dog continues as long as he is near your side fit in as many clicks as you can. Walk forward a little more as he pulls, but walk slowly and see if he might look at you (which earns a click!) or even slow to meet your side (obviously a click). If he continues pulling without looking to you then turn back around and walk at a nice quick pace and again as he reaches your side click and treat, slow again as he reaches the end of the leash. If he stays by your side give a click for every step or two but slowly increase the amount of steps required to earn a click. Repeat over and over and soon he'll learn being by your side is positive!

I feel your pain on the big pulling Husky front. I have one as well. They really make walking them less fun.

I found that the hardest thing was getting him out and burning off his zoomies, and training him at the same time. I didn't want him to not get a walk, but I also didn't want him dragging me down the street. We tried a couple of equipment things that were supposed to help but they really didn't. My dog would either escape from them or scream horribly when they were used. (He learned from old owners that screaming = end of being forced to do what he does not want to do, like get off the couch.)

Ultimately I use a flat buckle collar, and lots of his favorite treats. (We use yogurt drops) And I use a combination of the afore mentioned methods. (That no respectable dog trainer would accept, but I just want my arm back, so my standards are low.)

I would definetly read about as many different methods as you can and pick one or two that you think you can be 100% consistent with and STICK WITH IT for a while. Some dog training facilities also offer special "problem walker" classes that might help.

Ultimately Huskies can be very stubborn and self interested. So Husky owners need to be 1. be even MORE stubborn and 2. make sure there was something in it for them.

Buster used to pull, he wasn't terrible but it made every walk a chore. I tried stopping and waiting, going backwards and turning around, it didn't bother, he'd just drop straight back then pull again straight away.

Eventually when I involved my clicker things really started to change. I started off in the backyard, him next to me, no distractions. One small step then click and treat vefore he got a chance to go out in front, over and over again until he eventually managed 2 steps. Pretty soon he started to catch on that not shooting out in front got him treats.
Over a couple of weeks we moved out of the backyard, adding more and more steps each time. Practicing a few times a day.
3 weeks later and I had a dog that most of the time walked loose leash and one very happy me

well hes been doing well with the prong collar, but hes learning from that too, my gf took hm for a walk ona regular collar yesterday and he didnt pull at all for her, and ihear ya about him pulling, i've tried turning around and hell just pull all the way home....i just feel as though the prong collar is a little agressive for a dog and it just looks so mean, it does a goodjob but i justfeel bad forhim and iwould rather have him walk right than have to be pinched every time he doesnt

Why not try teaching a differential reinforcing behavior. Huskies were selected to pull. They love to pull and run. They're obsessed, as you're finding out. So let him. Give him an outlet for this hard wired drive. Teach him to pull you using a harness. (as long as it is physically safe for him and you) Put the pulling on cue. Have some fun in a safe, fenced yard. You could stand on a skate board and have fun yourself. Or get a sled. (?) But find out how to do all that if you do. You might talk to some sled dog people and see what they have to say.

Then remove the harness and put on a regular collar or no pull harness. Change the game. Now it's time to loose leash walk. Make tons of turns, every few steps and swish youself around enthusiastically. Make it a game and get him engaged in the game. Lots of treats...high rate of reinforcement for coming along with you. You can use a rope toy or his favorite squeeky reserved just for this to help get his attention and add to the fun, then after a couple of good turns where he's staying with you, play a short tug game. You need to get him involved and interested in what you're doing so that you're the best, most fun thing in his environment. And the environment needs to be relatively boring for a while so that you won't be competing with it. Never try to teach a dog new skills in real, every day life contexts. In other words, don't wait for too see another dog or people jogging on your walk. That's too difficult to compete with for a novice dog. Set up situations, the location, what's going on around him. Set him up for success. Then gradually add in some mild distractions and try. If he simply can not do something, it's because you're asking too much too soon. Go back to where is was successful and work there a little longer.

Teach him to watch you....give you eye contact. Do that seperately.

Practice this several short sessions a day. When you're out on a regular walk where you can't always avoid distractions, use a no pull harness (there's one called a Halti harness along with some other kinds) instead of things that cause discomfort and associate walking with a not so fun time.

Switch back and forth from pulling on cue (whatever cue you want, just so it's the same) to "let's go" (nice, loose leash walking.) Do one way for 3-5 minutes and then the other for 3-5 minutes (depending on his attention span and if he stays interested) and then again. You can just leave the harness and collar on, but switch where your leash goes accordingly. Get it so he can volley from one cued behavior to the other reliably and quickly. Get it so there will be a real distinction for him. When it's loose leash walking time, do not let him pull at all...not for a step. Stop frozen or turn the other way. Because dogs are not very good at generalizing behvaior, this is something he is very capable of learning. It's like how dogs can learn to stay off of one piece of furniture, but it's okay on another piece. This is all due to that cognitive phenomenon.

At first it won't be easy because he won't differentiate that well. But with practice (several short sessions) and as he makes the association between the cue and the behvaior, it will get easier. Reinforcement is what will cause him to repeat the good responses. Cues are not the driving force behind behavior. So be sure to deliver something he absolutely goes ape over and deliver it rapidly as he is performing how you like. For a while, he'll be guessing what it is he's being rewarded for because he's doing several behaviors all at once. Only by a process of elimination will he make that correct association and that can only happen by frequent reinforcement for every correct response. Later, you can put it on a variable reinforcement schedule, where it's more close to random.


Teach a formal, tight heel later if you wish. But that is a more advanced skill and to help him learn, go in baby steps, make things easy for him for now. I always teach a loose leash walk first, then a heel. It's very difficult for a dog to maintain a tight heel for very long...takes a lot of concentration. It's too much to ask until they can walk in an approximate position. There's really not much point in a formal heel unless you're showing or.....unless you just want to for brain exercise, but that comes later.

i also suggest not using any kind of harness on a husky when WALKING, they are bred to pull and harnesses seem to encourage this pulling.

and i agree, give him a good run before hand, and lots of praise and reawrds.

choke chains are not a poropular training tool with most folks, many trainers now refuse to use them because there extreemly difficult tool to master and can do Alot more damage than good as youf obviously also foudn most dogs will pull right through a choke chain.

many folks have had good luck with prongs, there are some useres here but ive never used one so i cant help you there...

i like to use halti head collars on very sturrbon pullers but only if other methods havent yet worked.

Here's a harness designed specifically to prevent pulling.

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--Halti-Harness--halti-harness

But again, to try to inhibit all pulling in a dog that is bred to pull is supressing and penting up his natural drives. It would be like preventing a retriever from retrieving or a grey hound from running, a vermin hunter from digging. These animals do much better if given a good prey-energy burner....a constructive, appropriate outlet that is in line with their natural instincts.