Sit and beginning blind retrieves

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#1
Yes, I am having sit issues. Its probably from me not being sure of what I want compounded by lack of (outside, especially) training. So if you have any thoughts, ideas, or ramblings...

What I need/want is really three separate tasks. In each case, sit also means stay until given a different command.
1. Heel, and sit when stopped.
2. Come and sit. I would actually prefer this to not be at heel, but facing me. Its easier to hold her attention or receive the ball/bumper/bird.
3. Sit on a whistle blast, turning and facing me.

Now, what she's doing and what I'm trying to do to fix it.

1. When stopping, she'll often swing around and sit facing across me. Her head is in the right place, (more or less) but her tail is in a different time zone. Sometimes she'll get bored and sit on my foot.

Here, I'm trying not to reward anything thats not straight forward. This means I'll have her walk with me a few more steps then stop again.

2. When coming she'll often blow past me and (maybe) sit behind me, facing pretty much any direction. Or she'll stop in front of me and face a random direction.

Again, I am trying to only reward for a proper sit. But now its compounded by having her come and worrying about her not dropping her retrieving object. I should probably just step back a few paces and have her come again?

3. This is the big step before beginning blind retrieves with the baseball drill. I've been chaining the whistle to a sit inside and we've been making reasonable progress. I know for response at a distance, I'm going to have to go slowly.

Otherwise, I can have her sit from a heel, or facing me after a come while I move back. I've been proofing the "stay" part, but I can not get her to stop spinning when she should be looking to me. If I have her on a check cord, I could throw the dummy over her head, she'll spin around and if I start reeling her in to try and get her to face me again she'd reach me hopping backwards.
 

poodlesmom

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#2
It's been a while since I've trained for points 1 & 2 but this is how I did it.

For the sitting when stopping during a heeling pattern, on lead, I go along and slightly slow down for the last 2 - 3 steps before I'm stopping while sliding my hand down the lead to gently guide the dog to remain at my side and sit in the heel position when I come to the stop. As the dog catches on I stop guiding. When they are consistently doing this then I will continue on off lead.

For the come front again I start this on lead. Put the dog in a sit/stay, walk out to the end of the lead, turn around facing the dog, slightly separate my feet, give the come command and again gently guide the dog to come straight and in close enough that I can touch his head when he sits facing me. Especially in the beginning I never follow the come command with a finish command for the dog to swing around and sit at my side. I find when this is taught too soon many times the dogs start anticipating it and eliminate the come front. I teach the finish later on, completely separate from the come command. Another thing I have seen others use successfully to help teach the straight come front is to work the dog between barriers - be it 2x4's laid on the floor or against a wall with fencing along the other side.

When she is consistently coming in straight start incorporating the retrieve, giving the "come" command initially while she is in the act of returning to you. You should be able to eventually stop reminding her and not have to use the come command.

I've never trained for the sit at a whistle blast.
 
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#3
1. When stopping, she'll often swing around and sit facing across me. Her head is in the right place, (more or less) but her tail is in a different time zone. Sometimes she'll get bored and sit on my foot.

Here, I'm trying not to reward anything thats not straight forward. This means I'll have her walk with me a few more steps then stop again.
Marsh does the exact same thing. I think this is more of a heeling problem than a sit problem. So one thing I've been doing is working on straightness more than sitting. We've been doing rear end awareness work that will eventually turn into a swing finish and left 360's.

2. When coming she'll often blow past me and (maybe) sit behind me, facing pretty much any direction. Or she'll stop in front of me and face a random direction.

Again, I am trying to only reward for a proper sit. But now its compounded by having her come and worrying about her not dropping her retrieving object. I should probably just step back a few paces and have her come again?
How does she come and sit without a retrieve object? If she can't front nicely without an object, I'd start there first, so there's a history of reinforcement for being in that spot. After she can do it well without carrying anything, there are a couple of things you can do with one.

Can she sit from a stand with something in her mouth? If she can't, start with her standing in front of you and practice giving her something and her holding it while going from a stand to a sit.

Once she can do that, start her in a stand (or a sit, which ever is easier for her) give her something to hold and take one step back. Encourage her to come to you; I probably wouldn't use any official commands she knows because this isn't a complete behavior. When she gets to you, use your judgement. I'd take the object from her without a sit at first probably, but if she's real solid on sitting from a stand you could probably get away with it.

Basically: work on the return separate from the go out and start at very close distances.

3. This is the big step before beginning blind retrieves with the baseball drill. I've been chaining the whistle to a sit inside and we've been making reasonable progress. I know for response at a distance, I'm going to have to go slowly.

Otherwise, I can have her sit from a heel, or facing me after a come while I move back. I've been proofing the "stay" part, but I can not get her to stop spinning when she should be looking to me. If I have her on a check cord, I could throw the dummy over her head, she'll spin around and if I start reeling her in to try and get her to face me again she'd reach me hopping backwards.
Don't throw the dummy directly behind her at first. Can you throw something to the space in front of her? How about to the sides (1st and 2nd base)? Can you toss less exciting things around her? If she looks but doesn't break, don't release her until she looks back at you. Most dogs are probably going to look, I'd guess. If you really don't want her to do that, I'd work on holding eye contact with you in the face of distractions and build up to tossing things in the field.
 
Joined
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#4
1. When stopping, she'll often swing around and sit facing across me. Her head is in the right place, (more or less) but her tail is in a different time zone. Sometimes she'll get bored and sit on my foot.

Here, I'm trying not to reward anything thats not straight forward. This means I'll have her walk with me a few more steps then stop again.
Marsh does the exact same thing. I think this is more of a heeling problem than a sit problem. So one thing I've been doing is working on straightness more than sitting. We've been doing rear end awareness work that will eventually turn into a swing finish and left 360's.

2. When coming she'll often blow past me and (maybe) sit behind me, facing pretty much any direction. Or she'll stop in front of me and face a random direction.

Again, I am trying to only reward for a proper sit. But now its compounded by having her come and worrying about her not dropping her retrieving object. I should probably just step back a few paces and have her come again?
How does she come and sit without a retrieve object? If she can't front nicely without an object, I'd start there first, so there's a history of reinforcement for being in that spot. After she can do it well without carrying anything, there are a couple of things you can do with one.

Can she sit from a stand with something in her mouth? If she can't, start with her standing in front of you and practice giving her something and her holding it while going from a stand to a sit.

Once she can do that, start her in a stand (or a sit, which ever is easier for her) give her something to hold and take one step back. Encourage her to come to you; I probably wouldn't use any official commands she knows because this isn't a complete behavior. When she gets to you, use your judgement. I'd take the object from her without a sit at first probably, but if she's real solid on sitting from a stand you could probably get away with it.

Basically: work on the return separate from the go out and start at very close distances.

3. This is the big step before beginning blind retrieves with the baseball drill. I've been chaining the whistle to a sit inside and we've been making reasonable progress. I know for response at a distance, I'm going to have to go slowly.

Otherwise, I can have her sit from a heel, or facing me after a come while I move back. I've been proofing the "stay" part, but I can not get her to stop spinning when she should be looking to me. If I have her on a check cord, I could throw the dummy over her head, she'll spin around and if I start reeling her in to try and get her to face me again she'd reach me hopping backwards.
Don't throw the dummy directly behind her at first. Can you throw something to the space in front of her? How about to the sides (1st and 2nd base)? Can you toss less exciting things around her? If she looks but doesn't break, don't release her until she looks back at you. Most dogs are probably going to look, I'd guess. If you really don't want her to do that, I'd work on holding eye contact with you in the face of distractions and build up to tossing things in the field.
 

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