Really great video on IPO

Hillside

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#21
ACDs can be hard ass, tough little dogs, I've heard of quite a few doing IPO. You gotta figure if a dog can back a bull down, that a guy with a sleeve can't be too much of an issue. Hell, there are some GOLDENS that do IPO...
 

stardogs

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#22
I think the biggest challenge with an ACD or other off breed in IPO is finding a trainer who can adjust the way they work dogs to the individual. ACDs are not Shepherds and from what I've heard, there are some decoys who work everything like a shepherd. Our decoy has trained numerous different breeds as part of our club, so he's much more flexible than many.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#23
I think the biggest challenge with an ACD or other off breed in IPO is finding a trainer who can adjust the way they work dogs to the individual. ACDs are not Shepherds and from what I've heard, there are some decoys who work everything like a shepherd. Our decoy has trained numerous different breeds as part of our club, so he's much more flexible than many.
Yeah, I it's going to be hard enough to find a trainer less than 2 hours away, let alone one that will actually be willing to work with something other than a Mal or GSD on an individualized basis.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#24
ACDs can be hard ass, tough little dogs, I've heard of quite a few doing IPO. You gotta figure if a dog can back a bull down, that a guy with a sleeve can't be too much of an issue. Hell, there are some GOLDENS that do IPO...
Haha, yes they are. And the dogs that come from my breeder are no pansies. They don't take no sh!t from nobody and are known to be EXTREMELY confident.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#25
We stumbled luckily into someone who could work Malinois. They're not GSD and too many GSD only clubs seem to have no idea what to do with them.

We have an off breed right now who came from a local GSD group who told her they had to start her dog in defense, three sessions in play and we've got her slowly barking and bouncing forward out of her comfort zone away from mom, excited to play the game.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#26
We stumbled luckily into someone who could work Malinois. They're not GSD and too many GSD only clubs seem to have no idea what to do with them.
I guess I didn't think about the fact that Malinois are probably worked a lot different than GSD's. Hell, really, every breed is worked differently.

Are groups usually pretty good about accepting off-breeds?
 
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#27
Not all shepherds are trained like shepherds :) It's more likely you've run into people that have only watched one person work and rather than understanding what they're doing, they just do what they've seen with every dog.

We've had a ton of breeds. Mostly Mal's and Shepherds and really if you want to do the sport you should probably get one of those bred for it. But we've had the usual "offbreeds" like Rotties and Boxers, Am. Bulldogs, pitbulls a Hovawart. Not many ACD's around here. I can't think of any off the top of my head that I've worked with. They do seem to have the attitude for it, but there's a difference in doing schutzhund and really doing schutzhund if you know what I mean.

There's a large leap from getting a dog to play tug with you on a sleeve and a dog that can handle the pressure of a track, OB and then protection with real pressure and conflict resolution.
 

Red Chrome

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#28
No, most groups aren't very accepting of other breeds. DVG clubs have the best bet for being open to off breeds.

Make sure the club is the right fit for you and the dog. Some clubs don't mesh well with some people and vice versa. I know a few good clubs who have really not meshed with individuals but as a whole are wonderful trainers and clubs.

GSD people can be assholes and very unaccepting of new people and especially new people with off breeds. I train with my local club where I got lucky that my TD has tons of off breed experience. Then I also drive 4 hours one way once a month to train with a different club, also an all breed club. When you're looking for good training and need different things, more of something etc. distance is not a big thing.
 
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#29
Yes. Her mouth is not big enough for the sleeve, but we are working on it. She is a pretty awesome little dog. My TD is also training a mutt and we've had Border Collies, ACDs, Pit Bulls and others. We encourage anyone with a dog who has the temperament for it to try it.
What would you look for in the temperament of a dog (any dog, but specifically an off breed dog) for starting bite work?
 
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#30
What would you look for in the temperament of a dog (any dog, but specifically an off breed dog) for starting bite work?
I guess it depends what your goal is, but to make it easy, a good amount of prey drive and some confidence should allow you to at least partake in some bitework and make things look decent.

when you start getting into pressure and all those other things, then it complicates things a bit in what they need mentally. Personally, If I was looking for the whole package it would be a Shepherd or Mal. If I was looking to just have fun with it, I'd keep it prey drive and confidence. Much easier to train. If they like food a lot, it helps with tracking. keep it simple.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#31
Not all shepherds are trained like shepherds :) It's more likely you've run into people that have only watched one person work and rather than understanding what they're doing, they just do what they've seen with every dog.

We've had a ton of breeds. Mostly Mal's and Shepherds and really if you want to do the sport you should probably get one of those bred for it. But we've had the usual "offbreeds" like Rotties and Boxers, Am. Bulldogs, pitbulls a Hovawart. Not many ACD's around here. I can't think of any off the top of my head that I've worked with. They do seem to have the attitude for it, but there's a difference in doing schutzhund and really doing schutzhund if you know what I mean.

There's a large leap from getting a dog to play tug with you on a sleeve and a dog that can handle the pressure of a track, OB and then protection with real pressure and conflict resolution.
Well, in the end, each individual dog has to be worked as an individual as well, so... There's that. Lol I'm not looking to get seriously involved, I don't think. I'm looking to make my herding dog well rounded, and I think it would be a lot of fun to try. If I were to get serious, well then a future dog would possibly be a different breed choice (but I highly doubt it, I love me some Cattle Dog).

No, most groups aren't very accepting of other breeds. DVG clubs have the best bet for being open to off breeds.

Make sure the club is the right fit for you and the dog. Some clubs don't mesh well with some people and vice versa. I know a few good clubs who have really not meshed with individuals but as a whole are wonderful trainers and clubs.

GSD people can be assholes and very unaccepting of new people and especially new people with off breeds. I train with my local club where I got lucky that my TD has tons of off breed experience. Then I also drive 4 hours one way once a month to train with a different club, also an all breed club. When you're looking for good training and need different things, more of something etc. distance is not a big thing.
I'm having a super hard time finding anything even relatively close... I'm not sure I will be able to be picky. :( Who knows, maybe in two years when I'm able to start this, IPO will have gained a little more love over here on my side of the state!

AND FOUR HOURS?! Dang. Dedication.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#32
Not all shepherds are trained like shepherds :) It's more likely you've run into people that have only watched one person work and rather than understanding what they're doing, they just do what they've seen with every dog.

We've had a ton of breeds. Mostly Mal's and Shepherds and really if you want to do the sport you should probably get one of those bred for it. But we've had the usual "offbreeds" like Rotties and Boxers, Am. Bulldogs, pitbulls a Hovawart. Not many ACD's around here. I can't think of any off the top of my head that I've worked with. They do seem to have the attitude for it, but there's a difference in doing schutzhund and really doing schutzhund if you know what I mean.

There's a large leap from getting a dog to play tug with you on a sleeve and a dog that can handle the pressure of a track, OB and then protection with real pressure and conflict resolution.
Good post, I didn't mean to sound like a jerk with a bias. You're right though most "shepherd only" clubs I have met have a tendency to either exclude or ruin off breeds because they either don't know how or don't think they should change their methods to individually assist each breed.

Also, it's not that different from agility, per say, there are those who run over an a frame in the six week intro class and there are those who spend 6-12 weeks on ground work before seeing a contact obstacle. Both are agility but both are very different.
 

stardogs

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#33
My club is a UScA club, so it's not just DVG clubs, either, just to muddy the waters further. LOL

I drive 70 mins one way to my club and that's considered "close". Several people in our club drive 2.5 hours one way because the clubs in their area didn't work for them.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#34
Additionally, it's fun to try but most clubs, that i have seen, have become jaded (rightfully so) and dislike starting people's dogs (especially off breeds that are openly dappling). It's tiring and frustrating to begin foundations only to have the handler say, "I just wanted the fun stuff, like Bitework," or "Thanks, bored now."

We commonly, in Vegas, wouldn't touch a dogs Bitework until they proved interest for a couple weeks in obed and or tracking (less there because we were pretty slack on tracking ourselves).

For the sake of clubs and the physical/mental work the TDs & helpers put in make sure you're really interested before you just dapple. Head out, sans dog, for a few times and just hang out and help. This will give you a chance to learn, them a feeling of good faith, an most importantly you a chance to see their methods.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#35
Additionally, it's fun to try but most clubs, that i have seen, have become jaded (rightfully so) and dislike starting people's dogs (especially off breeds that are openly dappling). It's tiring and frustrating to begin foundations only to have the handler say, "I just wanted the fun stuff, like Bitework," or "Thanks, bored now."

We commonly, in Vegas, wouldn't touch a dogs Bitework until they proved interest for a couple weeks in obed and or tracking (less there because we were pretty slack on tracking ourselves).

For the sake of clubs and the physical/mental work the TDs & helpers put in make sure you're really interested before you just dapple. Head out, sans dog, for a few times and just hang out and help. This will give you a chance to learn, them a feeling of good faith, an most importantly you a chance to see their methods.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Bitework is actually the least of what I'm interested in as far as IPO. The obedience is what really drew me in. I've got AT LEAST two years before I'd even have a dog to start working in it, so I'm just kind of poking around at the idea and talking to some people in the mean time. I know how frustrating it can be to have somebody come in, and you spend a ton of time helping them, and the half-a** and then up and quit. Not fun.
 

Red Chrome

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#36
Our club has a 3 month probation period for new people. It's pony up or pony out. We don't have time for people that don't stick and on average, 1 out of 10 sticks.

You have to be picky when picking a club. Bad training is worse than no training.
 

Red Chrome

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#37
There's a large leap from getting a dog to play tug with you on a sleeve and a dog that can handle the pressure of a track, OB and then protection with real pressure and conflict resolution.
This. There is a reason, not a lot of people work off breeds. There is also a reason, not many off breeds are seen on podiums.

I love my pit bulls and will always train them in IPO,but at the end of the day, I will always have a GSD to be a bit more competitive with.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#38
Our club has a 3 month probation period for new people. It's pony up or pony out. We don't have time for people that don't stick and on average, 1 out of 10 sticks.

You have to be picky when picking a club. Bad training is worse than no training.
PM'd you.
 

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