Collie and Lurcher?

We have a 3 year old dog, we got him when he was 1 and we were told that he was a collie by his last owners. However, I *think* that they did not see the parents beforehand and he was very poorly treated there (implying lying).
Now he is 10cm larger than a collie should be, and a lot heavier. I didn't think about it until we had a collie in our dog training class. This dog was half his width and they looked nothing alike. It's not just that he is overweight (although he has gained some weight since being neutered) but his ribs are wider and his feet are much larger. Basically, he is just a bigger, heavier dog.
He eats less than our lurcher and gets twice as much exercise yet he maintains his weight. He is 33kgs (measured balanced in a dog basket on scales) but that is 10kg over the 23kg border collie weight braket...
I was interested to see what other people thought? Is he just a really overweight collie? I always look at him and think I see a little bit of something else in there...
Here are his photos;
his face





his body; I am sorry about the quality. He is a very active dog and standing still is not his thing. Also the poorer quality pictures were taken 1/2 an hour ago and he has a v. scruffy winter coat.




I would also like opinions on our lurcher, we ended up getting her from a friend; before that she was a stray. She is now 10-ish and is the lovely-ist dog ever (she has no flaws). She is taller than a whippet, smaller than a greyhound so we assumed greyhound x whippet. However her nose is wider and she isn't particularily scrawny, even when she was underweight. I know she might look a little overweight now, but at her age I think it is important to have a little extra padding. I was wondering whether people agreed with the greyhound/whippet assumption.






Thanks; he has been on a diet for a few months but he just isn't losing weight. Our vet says that while he is still active and healthy it isn't a real issue.

You most likely have an Australian Shepherd, not a collie. Congrats, they're awesome dogs! Of course, I'm biased, since I have one as well.

Your sighthound, she could be a grey/whippet mix, or just a small grey. One thing though, at her age it's more important for her to NOT have extra padding, as it puts extra stress on their joints. She is very lovely though.

I agree with Aussie!

Also, I agree with Zoom. One thing you can do to make aging easier for her is too keep off any extra weight. It is really hard on an older dogs body to be carrying around 'baggage'.

Although, where are you from? Your "collie' might be an English Shepherd depending on where you're at.

He does look like an English Shepherd, but it sounds like you're in the UK and the English Shepherd is actually an American breed. Could be a heavier boned Border Collie x Australian Shepherd - but definitely not a Rough Collie.

Regarding the Lurcher,when I was looking into them, I found many people breeding Sighthounds to bulls (Staffordshire Bulls, Am Staffordshire, etc.) and they looked very much like that - the sighthound influence took over the bull influence in general conformation, but they had a little bit wider heads. Maybe Pops will see this and chime in -- he knows his stuff!

I have a friend with an aussie who looks just like him; but ruled it out on account that we are in england (where they are pretty uncommon, and collies are everywhere) although I can imagine someone inexperienced selling one as a "collie".
About the lurcher's weight. That was what our vet said; she has only gained 1kg in the 7 years we have owned her. When we got her the vet said she needed to gain weight. And they said that she is better off with a little extra fat because she because if she gets unwell she may lose weight very quickly.

I think he looks like a border collie. He doesn't look like my border collie, who has a slightly more tapered muzzle. I don't know your measurement scale, but if his feet are properly sized for his body, then they are the correct size. Rough coated collies look like they have small feet because the feet are oval, and the rest of the dog looks bigger than it is because of the full double coat. My dog's sire was about 55 pounds, which is large for a border collie, but there you have it (from incredible and famous lines, so I'm sure he really is a purebred BC). I think your lurcher is a small greyhound.

Aussies are gaining more popularity overseas, though they're not super common yet. Anything is possible though.

I'd agree, your dog is either an aussie or border collie, absolutely not a rough coated collie. Have you seen Lassie? That is a rough collie.... definately not the same breed as your dog.

That dog looks like a border collie to me, there is incredible variation in the breed. He sort of reminds me of Dekka's Scout, but maybe I'm just seeing things.

Welsh sheepdog is another possibility if you're from the UK. Yet another breed with a wide variation in coat, color and size because they are bred for their ability, rather than looks.

Also, lurchers are sighthounds mixed with anything else. If your dog is sighthound X sighthound that makes her a longdog. She's very cute!

Personally, I think that dog's head is very 'chunky' for a BC. Though if there are very few aussies over there, then I suppose he is more likely just an unusually thick BC.

Garg!!! I meant, Dekka's SPORT. Obviously I haven't seen enough pics of him if I'm mixing his name up with Laur's chinchilla. yeah....that's it...

ETA: Here is a link to a thread with pics of him
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t101342/

Your dog does have a heavier muzzle like folks are pointing out, but I think it could easily fall within the natural variation of the breed.

If I did the conversion right, he's 72 lbs which is REALLY big for a BC. Could it happen? I suppose but that combined with his head shape makes me think he's a mix of bc (or a similar herding breed) and something larger.

Am I crazy but I see rottweiler in his head...

I agree with laur i see rottie in him as well. Although I live in the UK as well annd I have seen BC's looking like that as well

The OP said he was overweight though, so his weight might not be a true indicator of his size.

He could also just be a "farm collie mix" and have more than one herding breed in him?

He is overweight by the standard of how much he used to weigh. It has been really hard knowing whether he is overweight; he was slimmer before he was neutered and since then he has been eating less but gaining weight.

It's hard to know with not knowing what sort of breed he is. If he is pure collie then he is obese; but it is not like he has a lot of soft fat on him. He is pretty muscly and it is his legs and shoulders that have filled in since neutering. And he is about 72lbs.

Actually, he is the same size and very similar body shape to my friends rottie.

Also, is aggression common in border collies/aussies??

Thanks

If you run your hands down his back can you feel his last two ribs? That is about ideal. If you can feel no ribs, then he's overweight.

What are you talking about when you say aggression? Guarding his food? Hunting other animals? Not getting along with other dogs? Not liking strangers?

When he first came he was generally agressive; all the things you mentioned.
He now doesn't guard his food and is definately below our lurcher and our cat in the pack order.

He still barks when the doorbell rings but mostly he is well behaved. On walks he is alright as long as they don't get too close. He hasn't bitten anyone, but he has growled with teeth bared and barks. This behaviour has improved a lot; and he comes back when you call.

Our main problem is dog training; when he is there he has to be close to a lot of dogs he gets nervous and can suddenly bark at someone who is giving him "evil" looks. He has made loads of progress and can now sniff other dogs. Most lessons he is fine. Although there is a labradoodle who is insane and can't sit still who he gets annoyed with.

We know that he was abused at a young age, and later left alone for weeks at a time. So, he does have a reason. But I was just wondering whether it was more common in certain breeds.
Our lurcher hides and cowers at barking dogs, loud noises etc. expecting us to protect her. My brothers greyhound and my sister's whippet is the same.


Wwith ribs, you can feel one and just about the second one. So, I guess he is not as overweight as I though!