Ella's Lead collars?

No?

In all seriousness, is it really some kind of unbelievably mind-boggling notion that two creative people using similar tools to make similar products might conceivably have similar ideas for a design?

It's not mind boggling because as an art student I know most artists draw from their teachers. Ana has been making leather gear long before any of the others, it's to be expected they draw from her. We were all on the pit bull forum, ages ago, when she first considered making rope gear (which last, to this day). I am by no means surprised some of her designs follow closely the designs of those before her. Some of them are unique, some draw from others bordering on copying.

It's not just her, nor is this unique to collars, this discussion has been brought up within tags (FT, AA, MDM, et.) and additional leather style collars unique from the EL, PC, CGC, and KCs of the world.

There are laws that protect ideas without copy rights having been followed, there are cease and desist letters that seem to keep most everyone in the community out of court. My point is, an artist will draw from those before them but the true test is showing what they can produce beyond their teachers.

These first world problems.. oh dear lol I really must be missing something here, I don't get the tension.

I could understand ellas or paco squabbling, but eeeeerrrrr... They obviously don't seem to care??

Don't like a product? Don't shop there. Don't like the customer service? Don't shop there.

I'm sure one company is clever and able enough to take action if they feel there is copyright infringement and don't need a gaggle of fans to scream it from the hills either.

Weird things people get upset about....

Wars? Rape? Nooooooooo collars!! Lol

I'd be upset if I had personal poor experience, but meh, I just wouldn't give them my business, done and done. Next!

It's funny how you seem to be the only one getting upset and worked up over this

You're possibly making this a bigger deal on your end, Dizzy.

Whoa,fascinating thread!.
I bet the OP did not expect that!.
I've ordered,from both PC & EL.
I wanted an affordable,every-day collar and that's what I got,with the TAG COLLARS.
Consumer service was excellent,with both company.
Everything was done,by FB messages cos I live in FR and have no complaint.
Yes,their designs are similar but each bring something different.
I think PC is becoming the Hermes of dog collars,mostly,due to their high price & popularity but doesn't make EL,a bad company.
I,just,hope that the dog collars,from PC have the durability of a Hermes saddle.
I expect a lot more from a PC than a EL,mostly due,to the price tag.
The reason why I ordered from EL was because I was given a giftcard and I was surprised at the postage difference,in both company.
For FRC asks 25$ while EL asks for 9,50$ so quite the difference!.

I'm going to struggle to articulate this well. But honestly, while I appreciate the work that goes into making a good quality collar, at the same time my interest in collars is very concrete. Abstract ideals of whether a collar design tests the maker as an artist are a little bit beyond my line in the sand as far as whether I like their collars or will purchase from them. If I like the design, and I like the service, and I like the collar, then okay.

I get that people have had bad experiences with EL. I haven't had them myself. I like their collars, I've been happy with their service. And if that's the only place this thread went then that would be all I had to say. But the accusations of theft are really giving me an icky feeling (and not about EL). Honestly this thread is the first I've heard those accusations, and I don't even know which designs or how many designs. But if I searched every collar maker I could find on the internet (jeepers, on etsy alone) and put all their designs side by side in a giant spreadsheet, there would be some overlap in designs. I'm quite sure at least some of them have probably been making collars for a long time without ever even hearing of Paco or Ella's or each other. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes coincidence is just coincidence.

There are many different ways to decorate a collar, and there are a great handful of collar maker who have VERY unique work. Yeah, it's a strip of leather, some rivets, decorations... but there are SO many variations.

It's like saying it's just a canvas and some paints. Aren't all paintings the same?

In the business of collar making (or any goods, really) you need to be aware of what other companies are making. If Abercrombie's logo is a moose and you decide to make a line of Polo shirts with little moose logos, you'd better be prepared for a lawsuit.

I do feel like Ella's Lead steals collar designs. As referenced in the blog posting above, a design from Facebook (talked about by a Facebook group) was copied by Becca a few days later. You can say it's a coincidence, but when it happens over and over again, the coincidence excuses kinda gets... lame.

Anyway, I had ordered 3 chihuahua collars from Ella's Lead, and they were bad. The way I was treated for saying the product wasn't the quality I expected was absurd. Screen shots are listed in the blog post linked a few posts above.

Also, I've never heard of any collar company giving away free products to bad mouth competitors. For me, the Ella's Lead collars spoke for themselves.

Would you be happy if you spent $30 a piece on these collars?

20110808-DSC_3143 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr

20110808-DSC_3156 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr

20110808-DSC_3155 by Chihuahuaesque, on Flickr

I didn't purchase them when Ella's Lead started. I purchased them a little over 2 years ago.

This.

Not that I see anybody that I would call upset, but some people DO have the capacity to be upset about more than one thing at once...

It wasn't accusations. There are a lot more links where that one came from. I chose not to post them. The only people getting their panties in a wad are EL customers.

The thread asked for opinions on EL collars. I merely stated my interaction with them and their IMO poor business practices. Nothing more, nothing less. Others have different experiences and that is wonderful but it doesn't mean you get to discount others experiences.

I'm glad your experiences have been good. We'll have to disagree about coincidence and I am sure that is weighed by my experience in watching several of these companies grow up from an idea to a brand.

To be honest my only bad experience was, as I said, the two leather slips I bought discolored, stretched, and thinned with extremely minimal use. With that being said I was called many names on this forum by a representative of the company. Of course that thread is now gone so it is what it is, my word of discomfort.

Buy as you please, you're well educated and should trust your own judgement.

For me though, in the end, I believe reviews are important, both good and bad. I don't just buy things to see what happens, I can't afford to, so I appreciate both sides.

Yes, this.

Ella's Lead hasn't only been accused of copying Paco Collars, either. There are other companies out who feel their designs have been stolen as well by Becca.

If I have a poor experience with a company and someone asks for opinions on said company, I want to help them make the best decision they can make. I work in accounting. I don't want people to spend their hard earned money on inferior products. Be a wise consumer. Read reviews.

My experience with Ella's Lead was so terrible I would never order from them again. It's a shame, too, because I have a rope lead from them I really like.

The link Red Chrome provided earlier has links to a couple cases. One is a very long thread on another forum, and is the case that I remember the design copying thing becoming an issue. There's a lot of spatting, and I don't know the truth of any of it, but it made me uncomfortable enough that I prefer to stay away from it.

Wow, just, wow.

I came on today to post about Kaiden's birthday. I really haven't been active on Chaz for the last couple years or so, for a variety of reasons.

Clicking on new posts, I see Ella's Lead collars mentioned. I read through it, wondering if the BS from back then would be mentioned...... seems it has.

Jessie, you whined and complained then, Becca gave you a refund. You're still posting the same pics as you did then. Back then I said that I felt there were tool marks showing that didn't match the process of applying the conchos. Can you simply not just say that you had a poor experience and leave it at that?

Just so folks know, I've done leatherwork as a hobby for 15-20 years, but it's mostly repair stuff on horse gear. I'm also a tool and die maker by trade. I know the process, I know what tools will or won't do what as far as marks go etc.

As far as accusations of theft, design or otherwise, those are just that, accusations I've been reading. IMO, some folks are crossing the line in their statements from opinion to accusation. I have no clue what collars or designs are being discussed, and really don't care.

However, when people start to cross a line, regardless of WHO is on the other side of it, I get defensive.

Anyway, my personal experience with Ella's Lead has been great, Kaiden, my JRT, is really, really rough on collars, and the one that he has is still standing up pretty good after constant wearing for over three years, and daily swims/splashes etc in the warmer months. I'll likely order another identical one to it sometime soon, just because it seems to suit him.

As far as a collar choice, if you aren't sure what you want, talk to them. They offer lots of options, and I've seen complaints on here from folks that ordered something (sometimes against the advice of others) and then became really vocal about it not meeting expectations. Even then, EL will step up and refund, even when IMO they often shouldn't. Sorry, but if I buy canned cat food at the supermarket, expecting dog food, I shouldn't be pissed when it turns out it's cat food should I??

There have been a couple times when conchos were lost off EL collars here, I think every time has been during a dog fight, and you can see the tooth marks left in the leather. This isn't a quality issue though, it's a dogs beating the he!! out of the collar issue, and anytime we asked for replacements, they arrived shortly without issue and I re-installed them.

When we lost Kat, Ben and Becca, having met her and Dekka on their stateside tour, went a step above and beyond, and sent us a package (not collars, but other stuff) as a way to say they were sorry about our loss. To me, that was a very personal touch, that they didn't need to do, but showed they cared.

I have no experience with any other custom maker of leather collars, so can't say good or bad of any of them.

The collar design things...I just dont know. Seems like a lot of weirdness surrounding that on all sides.

However, when I first joined here there was a thread on here about them and they were involved on it. I was extremely put off by how they responded in that thread, even threatening a member. I dont know what their history was with that person, but it was EXTREMELY unprofessional and made me decide to not order from them (At the time I was getting ready to order a collar and they were a top runner)

No more cookies for you all.

If we're going to dredge up the same nonsense as usual, here are the before pictures:

Untitled-1 by noludoru, on Flickr

There's some. . . obvious disconnect between how nice they look there and how they're falling apart in Jessie's. And then multiple other people saying they saw tool marks on the collars. You have such fervor about this when it happened over two years ago.


I'd like to say that the link to Namaste is probably a good thing. Anyone who wants to know about the supposed thievery of designs should read that post and form their own opinion.

This.

I am about as far removed from upset, worked up, and dealing as you can possible humanely get. In fact. I am still bemused and smiling now at your very serious and important collar issues. In fact, I might even chalk this up as the most upset I've never been in my Whole. Entire. Life. In fact, I couldn't be bloody happier!!

But....

JUST to make you feel better about things, and because I'm actually a really nice kind of person, I will pretend I am utterly devastated. I may even slam the door on the way and out declare I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE!!! (Inside joke).

I will cry into a pillow at the injustice you are all suffering at the hands of bad customer service and bleeding collars, and I will sob uncontrollably at just how UPSET I am

And I will flounce!! I love a good flounce.

I took this video of my actual reaction earlier today. No word of a lie.

Really? Really?

You're accusing me of tampering with the collars? I'm not the only one who has had bad experiences with Ella's Lead, but apparently if you give her a less than stellar review you MUST have had to ruin her items. Even now... bad opinions of Ella's Lead in this THREAD asking for opinions are called "nonsense."

Yep, I'm showing the SAME pictures of my Ella's Lead collars because they were the only ones I have! I opened my package, took out the collars, and Ian took photos of them. I sent Becca a PM and she argued with me about the return. It was a hassle. I complained about the collars on FB to a few people on Chaz (because they looked nothing like Becca's original pictures). These people told me they had the SAME issues but were too SCARED to post about them on Chaz because Becca was on there.

So, I posted my review up because I felt other people NEEDED to see the "other side". The thread was taken down (screen shots are on the Namaste blog of Becca/Ben's threats to myself and other chaz members). Good business owners don't threaten customers, and they especially shouldn't do it on a dog forum.

And nolu (re: the photos Becca sent me of the collars I ordered):

It's very easy to take a photo and make it look good, thus why I LOVED the before photos of my collars. Looking closely, I can see some fraying where the leather was cut on the left collar. In this photo, you CAN'T see the pokey rivets. You CAN'T see how bumpy the leather is. The collars are posed so you can only see the front.

Look at these photos of these puppies, and then look at the videos below the photos... it's easy to make something look shiny and pretty before it gets to the customer...

http://www.boutiqueteacuppuppies.com/catalog/chihuahua-puppies-for-sale-1-1.html

And yes, I do feel strongly about this. Like I said, I don't want ANYONE to receive a crappy product and bad customer service. If someone asks OPINIONS (read the OP's post), I am going to give them.

I can only recommend counselling for this level of anger and hatred following you around for so long.... Honestly you might need PTSD help or something.

Have you considered speaking to the Samaritans?

I find it kind of sad that you're so invested in this thread. I'm sorry it's getting to you so much.