How to encourage an aloof dog to be more interactive?

The symptom is constantly diarrhea, but we don't know what the cause is. She's on a very bland kibble to rule out food allergies, but that is almost assuredly NOT the cause. She's been on three different kinds of kibble since I got her (changed from puppy food to bland diet once diarrhea started, then changed from bland diet to BLANDEST diet once it got worse). I'll ask my vet about the garlic. She gets about 1 tsp on a cup of kibble and she gets the cup of kibble over the span of a day as treats.

How much are you feeding her each day? Overfeeding can cause diarrhea. Is it real loose or just soft?

She is usually quite a poor eater. Apparently the pups were eating a cup of food three times a day at 8 weeks with the breeder. Nova ate about a quarter of that for weeks. She STILL doesn't eat 3 cups of food a day usually. Maybe on the odd day she might... I do offer her 1 cup of food FOUR times a day right now because some feedings she only eats 1/4 cup and sometimes she just turns her nose up and ignores it completely. Other times she devours everything and wants more so I OFFER her a lot in case she is hungry (and my vet advised me to feed her as much as she'll eat because she's losing so much nutrition with the diarrhea). She eats usually 2 1/2 to 3 cups of food a day. The other pups in the litter are eating their 3+ cups a day with no problems.

I can't tell you how expensive this is. The food she's on is the highest priced food I've ever seen and when I mix up a cup of it with some wet and she just walks away...it's like 5$ in the garbage every time. GRRRR. I've probably thrown out half the bag. I need to start refridgerating it and then re-heating it for the next meal. She doesn't seem to like to eat it once it's "old" either.

The diarrhea started as loose stool and only here and there. Then it was loose stool all the time. Then it was more "pudding" diarrhea, then that turned into watery, spraying diarrhea. No medication had any affect on this trajectory. It just got worse and worse every day. Lately she has gone between pudding diarrhea and spraying watery diarrhea.

Please stop training her for the time being if she is that sick, there is no way she can be physically or mentally able to learn. And by being that sick with trying to train her, she will avoid you.

Also, getting frustrated and pinning her to the ground as you already know, can damage the relationship that you are trying to develope.

You have been given excellent advice from others and I especially argee with the clicker training (once she is well) and laying of the NILIF until she is well.
I highly recommend that you teach her how to tug correctly with you, this is a great game at building a relationship BUT it has to been trained right. Being invited to grab on and releasing when asked is the most important part.

Another thought, what is your body language and voice like when you do interact with her, whether it be around the house or when training? Some people have a really hard time knowing what their voice sounds like and the tone etc. You don't have to raise your voice to such a point of sounding like an idiot on helium, but a nice up happy voice combined with a smile and soft eyes has a huge impact on our dogs and how they respond to us.
Watch the people that she responds to the best, note their body language and tone of voice and face etc and copy it.

I see people all the time in my classes that have this problem, of course many of them are already frustrated with how their attempts at training have not turned out as they expected. Their tone of voice alone is often like a drill sargent and their dogs are not the happiest and out going dogs in the class, combine that with the dog not knowing what it is suppose to be doing to please the owner and neither one is happy.

The best part is it can be an easy fix with both of you having an awesome relationship and both being thrilled with each other. So don't give up.

I'm not going to stop training her because she is sick. If she were lethargic and acting ill I would of course not work her, but she is very bright, energetic and excitable so I'm not going to miss out on getting some training in on the ground floor simply because [unbeknownst to her] her body isn't working quite right.

YES. I am aware that I have made mistakes with her. As I mentioned I feel horrible about it and I am aware that it can have lasting consequences. Probably the last thing I need to be reminded about.

Of course, it is hard for me to critique my own tone of voice and maneurisms. Certainly, I am trying hard to be exciting and happy when I interact with her but it just may not be enough/the right way/may be too much. I can only try, right? This is part of the reason why I'd like to get more involved with clicker training because it takes the inconsistency of my voice out of it and it can't possibly have any negative connotations (which my voice can because, like most people, I can sometimes take on a frustrated or nagging tone).

More off topic, you had mentioned doing bite work with her. What's her pedigree look like?

I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with Nova... especially with her health problems. Honestly, even if she does seem bright and energetic, it is NOT fun having an upset tummy/constant diarrhea, I'm sure. She could be uninterested or distant because of how crummy she must feel. = ( I hope your Vet/specialist can figure out what's going on with her!

I agree that her condition shouldn't stop you from working with her, however. But don't expect too much, and don't be too clingy. Fozzie kind of went through a rebellious/ignoring me period when he was a young puppy, and it sucked, but it was mainly because I doted on him too much and gave him endless attention/cuddling without expecting anything in return from him. He was just too cute! It seems like you're a very doting Mom, too, so you could always try giving Nova some space and see if it has an effect. You can periodically call her to you, and give her praise and petting and play, but don't follow her around soliciting attention all the time... I mean, assuming that you do. Once I stopped obsessing over Fozzie, he began to respect my attention much more, and getting pet and praised was more meaningful because it wasn't constant and free.

Domestika- to answer your question as to other fun tricks you can teach, now that you've started targetting the sky is the limit, you can slowly increase how far she has to go to touch a target, this is the basis for teaching go outs, you can teach her to do spins, weave through your legs, jump over your legs, go from sit, to front, which way to finish, you can teach her to target teddy bears or favourite toys and teach her to retrieve, you can teach her to close doors or cupboards by putting targets on them, you can teach her to target her crate or mat and start building a reliable go to mat/ go to crate for when company arrives, you can use a target to teach rollover, so many things.

Another great thing clicker training does is begin a reinforcement history bank, between you and your dog, over time the more you put in, generally speaking, the more positive relationship you will have, remember that past reinforcement will be in the bank as well so you need to put more in to counteract whatever else is in there.

Like there's mentioned I would click and treat her for even just walking by you, and then do some rapid fire treats, or if your pup prefers toys have a fun game of toss or tug ( just make sure you teach and out cue along the way and end it if any skin contact occurs). Essentially your just building up your bank account with her, you can also click and treat her when she lets you pet her, or if she comes up and sits on you, you don't have to carry your clicker around all the time you can charge a marker word, the shorter the better I like a single alphabet letter Z is my choice as we dont tend to use it much in day to day life. Like with the clicker say Z then toss a treat and repeat 10-30 times. Now youve got a clicker even when you dont have your actually clicker on you.

Other things you can train with the clicker include loose leash walking, not lunging towards other dogs on walks, accepting handling, nail clipping- again the sky is the limit.

Kayla

Her dad and his side is all SchH3. Her mom's side has quite a bit of Schutzhund background, but not as strong. They're all working dogs in some way or other though. Her mom's side has more the search and rescue and RCMP dogs.

I can see why you want to train her at thi young age but I think you are way to strick with this pup. I kno wyou don't like to be chewed on but ALL puppie do thi. I would go pick her up an hold her while you watch tv or just sitting calmly. When she chews on you have a tug toy and tell her "no bite" and give her the tug to chew instead when she chews the tug tell her what a good girl she is. I'm really not sure why you are ignoring her but you think that she should be all over you but you have to teach her that you are a great peron to be with and holding her is the place to start.

a book I love that may help with your clicker training,,Clicking with Your Dog by Peggy Tilman...I love this book,,it offers TONS of behaviors to teach with clicker, and really breaks them down in easy step by step instruction.

Don't be to down on yourself,,we ALLL make mistakes!!! and we ALL are not perfect handlers/owners..Hang in there,,I hope you can come to some resolution regarding her diarhea!!
diane

Can there be a happy medium somewhere? Been reading through this thread, then spent a minute grabbing a few notes w/ copy/paste. Please look at the list of all the stuff you have done so far, just from your posts to this thread. Please read with an open mind ... take a breath, forget the frustration for a minute, read as if the following had been posted by someone else ...

That's an awful lot ... very inconsistent, first one thing then it's direct opposite. All with a creature who's been on Earth 3 months, much of that time spent sick with continual diarrhea, many vet visits and medical tests, different diets, different medications that of course you must give her, and it's likely her stomach hurts. The health problems alone must be terribly worrisome for you to begin with, now you've convinced yourself she doesn't like you.

Probably closer to Gena's thought that your puppy just doesn't know what to expect next. She doesn't know anymore how to respond ... so she's not responding at all.

You talked about letting frustration get the best of you, unfortunately several times. There was a posted "GRRRR" about having to throw away several bowls of expensive food when her appetite wasn't there ... you were going to start refrigerating refused meals but also expressed frustration that she won't eat leftovers. Adjorts warned of consequences of letting frustration get to you in the manner that it has ... you replied that you would prefer not to be reminded of those times.

Your vet isn't even sure at this point what the problem is, you were frustrated the breeder didn't answer an email for a week, then mentioned the breeder offered to trade for a different puppy and you considered that but possibly would prefer to build a relationship with this one. (The breeder still has Nova's sister? Did she mention what she would do with your sick puppy if you went ahead with a trade?) You had many very high expectations in mind of your own "little buddy" and all that would entail ... and have expressed great disappointment that current reality doesn't match that imagined picture.

Please take this the right way, I realize you're very frustrated so NOT trying to get on your case ... but it's looking like you and your puppy are BOTH shutting down.

Is there possibly a friend who could puppy-sit for a weekend? Granted, it would need to be a good and very responsible friend, because this a sick puppy with diarrhea who needs medication and special feeding right now. Don't say "no" right away ... really think about it ... I would do this in a hot second for a friend in a similar situation so there must be someone you know who would do so too. Could this be possible?

Honestly it looks like you both could use a much-needed break ... afterward both of you can have a fresh start on building a relationship.

I don't believe I am being strick by asking her to sit before she gets her dinner. I am not expecting perfection BY A LONG SHOT. I am fully aware that puppies don't "do what their told" 99% of the time. In fact, I don't particularly care how well she's trained at this point. My main concern, going back to my original post, is that she doesn't care to interact with me.

I'm aware puppies chew. It's nothing to do with me "not liking it"; why would I get a puppy if I couldn't handle some puppy chewing? I did and continue to do lots and lots of reading about puppyhood and everything I have read and everyone I've spoken to has told me that puppies need to learn bite inhibition by 14 weeks or you have yourself a problem. She is not on par with most puppies her age in terms of bite inhibition and none of the techniques that work on "most" puppies have any effect on her. Her biting has gotten worse, not better. So there's more to it than me "not liking" being bitten or not being understanding that puppies bite.

I'm "ignoring" her on suggestion from a number of people in this forum and from reading I've done. It seems to be quite common to "ignore" a dog who is ignoring you to try to eventually gain their attention.

I wish I knew how to quote different parts of a post. I only know how to quote one piece so I'll have to reply from memory. "GRRR".

Of course that list is inconsistent! You've taken every technique that I have tried over the last 6 weeks and put it all together like I pick and chose from the list how I'll interact with her today. Today I'll be...excited! Ok...and tomorrow I'll be...distant! In reality, that is a list of the progression of techniques that I have tried (on advice from my trainer and of course wonderful Chazzers) over more than a month. I try something, if it doesn't work then I try something else. That's how it's supposed to work, right? Things are a little more extreme now (with "ignoring" her), but it hasn't come about out of thin air.

However. You have hit on an issue that is a very sore spot for me. And while I'd like nothing better than to argue with you and tell you how you've TOTALLY got me all wrong and I'm not the out of control, domineering perfectionist your post has made me out to be... I have to admit that I am struggling, not just with my pup, and you are right...it's taken its toll on her and our relationship.

I have a GREAT deal of difficulty admitting it, but I am currently experiencing a period of major depression, which happens from time to time and unfortunately has coincided with doing something tough and stressful for even the average person: raising a puppy! I try very, very, very hard to be as upbeat, optimistic and fun to be around as possible for her. I take a break from her if I need it, I call my husband if I need to vent (he goes to school overseas), I remind myself frequently that I need to exercise patience and and I work very hard at being as consistent and understanding as possible.

I am scared of raising her incorrectly. She will be a big dog and she has a lot of drive so I consider it doubley important to make sure she gets off on the right foot and grows into a well-adjusted, controllable adult. I work with animals and I have seen many, many out of control adult dogs and I don't want my dog to be like that. I admit that maybe this has been a preoccupation for me and has been detrimental rather than helpful in my raising her so far. I was raised very strictly and unfortunately I'm often at a loss about how to be moderate in my expectations.

So, no. I'm not angry GRRR about wasting food. Money is no limit when it comes to my pets (it can be annoying flushing it down the toilet, of course, but it doesn't anger me). I'm not angry at the breeder or my vet or anyone else. I don't abuse my dog and she isn't being forced to work beyond her ability or capacity with her illness. She is EXTREMELY energetic and bouncy when she wants to be, so if she's feeling like crap she has a pretty funny way of showing it. I am in daily contact with my vet (and often my trainer!) to get advice or adjust how we're doing things. She is very well looked after.

I love animals. I love MY animals. I would do anything for my dog. I want her to be happy and, as a first time puppy owner who is living alone (siiiiigh) and going through a tough time, I am struggling with giving her the awesome puppyhood she completely deserves. I have the very best intentions and I truly want to see our relationship blossom. I just don't have the skills necessary to effortlessly and without mistake mold a puppy who is very independent and headstrong. She was 6 weeks old when I picked her and neither the breeder nor I saw anything in her personality that conflicted with what I was looking for (happy, bubbly, confident, loving of people/kids/dogs, even tempered and affection - we just sorta fell of the mark on the affection part).

In a way, I completely hate your post cause it seriously makes me look like such a freak. You've taken every slightly negative thing I've said over a dozen posts and lumped it all into one diatribe of misery and frustration that I don't think accurate portraits what I am doing with my dog. But there is some truth to it (ok, a lot), so I appreciate your post as a bit of a wake up call. It's probably a lot more me and a lot less her.

You are not a freak ... neither is your puppy. I was not trying to imply that, nor imply that you don't love your animals. Sorry if it didn't come across as intended ... intention was that your heart's in the right place with your pup but maybe you're just trying too too hard ... but for the right reasons. In the meantime she's sick and you're stressed.

Wish I could just stop by and give you a break for a bit 'cause you are just so very stressed out.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you are doing anything wrong, I certainly don't and inconsistent isn't the worst thing in the world, sometimes it can be good if one method isnt working. Sometimes I will spontaniously switch in the middle of a shaping session with Duke if one thing isn't working. I think all GR was trying to point out is perhaps not to worry to much as you have only had your little guy for not too long and you have tried alot of different things, so it is only natural to assume that you may simply just need more time until you and your pup find your niche- so to speak.

Im strongly backed with clicker training personally but this is just me, I think there is alot of good advice in this thread, maybe some of it could have been worded a bit differently, but for the most part, I strongly believe everyone who has posted is just trying to give you different advice, what you decide to take away is ultimately your call.

Puppy years are tough for sure, but they can be a mixed blessing, I was going through a similar bout of depression when I had Duke during his "hell years" and he really really helped me in positives way through it, but like anything else it had ups and downs, hang in there

Kayla

I definitely agree. I've found this post really helpful. Lots of great advice, and sometimes it's nice just to share your situation even if other people can't necessarily relate. But lots and lots to think about, which is super.

And Nova really has been a mixed blessing for me, too. I'm not very proud of it, but when I'm depressed I don't take very good care of myself. I can easily stay in the house for an entire day, or even days on end without ever leaving. And my sleeping habits are often horrrible. But the pup comes first and when she needs some exercise, she goes for a nice walk and gets some fresh air and...what do you know, I get some exercise too! She goes to sleep at 11pm and she's up at 8am so I am too, which is great. Sometimes I think this was a horrible time to get a puppy and other times I feel like this was definitely the right time.

No, no. It came across just as you intended it. It's just a bitter pill to swallow when someone calls you on your less than stellar behaviour.

Thanks for the support! I'll check out that book. The more clicker stuff we do the more she seems to like it, which is awesome.

But that is just it, we do understand the frustrations, the worry of making a mistake because we've been there. And NOBOBY will ever train any dog without making a mistake, it happens, great thing is it can be fixed. Dogs also can't learn with making a mistake either, just like people its how we learn.
Yes it is best to have bite inhibition under some control as early as possible BUT I have worked with many older pups and adults that had to learn it later.

Something else that will be a positive for you, I am ill which sometimes doesn't allow me to go outside or have much energy to train my dogs. But with clicker training, I can teach a bunch of behaviours and train them because the sessions are short (2-3 minutes several times a day) which I am then able to do.

Nobody here is trying to make things harder for you or make you upset.