Help Please...

hello everyone,

i have an 8 month puppy, he is a collie shepard mix, we got him from petsmart about 3 weeks ago. he is a great pup, but he has a problem meeting new people or dogs, he pees everytime he meets someone new, he lies on his back and pees, even if i just took him out the second before. but once he has settled in he is fine and runs around with the dog or plays with the person. also he has peed on my roommate's bed several times, but has never donet hat to me no matter how excited he gets. he also started laying down and refusing to go in the house once we are done with our walks, or when i try to go pick up his poo, to throw it away. he also has been biting and growling when i try to pick him up to go inside or in his crate, he just started this. i reward him when he gets up or in the crate but its always a big problem. i am just at a loss, i mean he is a great pup and learns quickly but i don't want this to lead to other problems

sorry about the long post, and thank you for all your help.

I have a 12 week old lab/boxer and I got her at 7 weeks old...she still pees a little bit when she gets really excited to see people, I am pretty sure its just a puppy thing, as for the peeing on your roomates bed, my pup peed on my couch 3 times, I sure showed her who T F was the boss after saying no the first 2 times, I know its really hard being stern with such a cute little tiny thing but you have too otherwise you're dog will think its the dominant one when in fact you are. When my puppy does something bad now she knows and goes right into her crate. Your pup is still young as mine is and will learn rights from wrongs with constant after constant stern reminders. One thing I've learnt is that when she is bad and I want her to come I can't yell at her because by that point they are too terrified to come, make your pup stay and go get it or don't show anger untill they are in your reach and then show them what they did wrong but make sure your pup always knows that its crate is its "safe place" not necissarily where it has to go only when it's bad. I hope this helps a bit?

Please don't be stern with your puppy. Please don't think dogs know OUR kind of "right from wrong." They have to be taught how to live in human's world. Dogs do behaviors which are NORMAL for dogs. They're dogs! He is not displaying dominance in any way. He is displaying submissive gestures. To pee in that way is acknowledging that the people he's peeing on are wonderful. It's his way of greeting. If you punish him in any way, it will make him do it more. When he is punished, he will offer up more submission and it will become a perminent habit. You'll ruin him if you are stern. No dog deserves to be treated sternly. There are wonderful ways to teach dogs and they involve no mistreatment or harshness.

Give him time to become socialized. Visit lots of people and make encounters pleasant and rewarding...not too exciteable. When people come over to you house, ask them (ahead of time) to not look at the pup or make any kind of greeting at first. Wait till they're sitting down for a while...things are calm and let HIM be the one to approach if he wants to. If he's OK, ask them to toss him a little treat and to pat him a little, but keep it low key. Same with you coming and going....keep things from being too exciteable.

He sounds like a frightened, submissive, probably undersocialized pup who will take very gentle handing methods without making a big deal or fuss over him when he's acting submissive or frightened. Just act like everything is fine and be confident. Reinforce his more confident behavior.

Start him on some obedience practice, using positive methods. And socialize him every day. Take him somewhere, see new things, people, dogs, but make sure nothing frightens him unduly.

If you start having him earn some of the things he likes, he will look up to you as his provider. Working with you will become very important to him. Supervise him so he won't pee on your room mate's bed. In this case, I'd remove the bed privelges for now. Ask your room mate to run him through a few skills with him every day; sit, down, stay, come and give him a treat for compliance.

Harsh treatment has no place in training a dog.

Where do you get this stuff anyhow? That is just absurd.

Most of what people think is dominance is merely undertraining.

Dogs are not plotting against you. Why do so many people think it's war against our dogs? What a shame.

Ginobli, if you want to help your dog learn to be a well mannered, well adjusted and trained dog, educate yourself. Read some good books. Culture Clash, Jean Donaldson is excellent. Dablazingurl, pleeeeeese get this book. You have it so wrong. I am sorry if I sound blunt, but that is just so sad to me. Learn how to train your dogs humanely and effectively. Learn how to understand how they think and learn, how they don't have morals like we do and don't know our brand of right from wrong. They don't have our value system so how could they relate that way? They have to be taught. And stern treatment will cause your dog to distrust you, fear you and not want to learn. Here's a helpful link:
http://www.showdogs.co.za/wag_the_dog/dominance.htm

Um, sorry but you are going to have some very serious problems with your dog if you continue to think this way and treat it this way. This is about as wrong as you can get and I urge you to PLEASE stick around here and learn about correct ways to communicate with and teach your dog. You are going to end up with an insecure, frightened dog who is impossible to teach if you continue on in this vein. Seriously - I'm not trying to be mean but you just have it ALL WRONG. There are lots of very experienced people on this board who can show you much more succesful ways and much more humane ways of interacting with your puppy.

If you had a seven week old baby and it made a mess in the house or on the bed, would you be stern with it and `show it what it had done wrong'? Of course you wouldn’t. Because it would not have DONE anything wrong. It is the same with a puppy. How on earth is a puppy of that age peeing on your bed being naughty? How is it supposed to know where and where not to pee? It needs to go, it goes. It is just a tiny baby dog. If you get angry with it for peeing you will never be able to teach it properly what is appropriate because it will start associating punishment with peeing – not with WHERE it pees. Dogs do not think like humans, they think like dogs. You need to start trying to think like a dog too – because you are capable of changing your thought patterns, a dog is not.

Peeing is not naughty, it is not a dominance behaviour – it is nothing but peeing. Again, a baby takes two to three years to be toilet trained, with coaching, help and training and encouragement the whole way through. A dog can do it in two months and usually needs to learn on its own. HELP it, don’t punish it – its not doing anything wrong.

Good Lord. So many people think dogs are born automatically knowing what they're `supposed to do' to make US happy. And then they are punished when they do something we don't like, as if they know any better. As if they are mind-readers from birth and are deliberately being naughty if they don't get it right! After which they are mistreated and made to feel afraid. Where is our responsibility to teach and love and look after our dogs without placing impossible expectations upon them? The only way your dog will ever learn what you want of it is for your to show it in a kind, caring and understanding way. They aren't born knowing what we want, they have to be taught.

Very well said (both Doberluv and RubyLove)!

Thank you...

I would like to thank you all for your help, I don't support some comments that were made because i don't like to punish my dog, so i won't. Ginobli has gotten somewhat better. I took him to the doggie park, like I do every Monday. He did great there as always. He gets along great with other dogs and he socializes very well, and very often so I am thinking that he is frighten of something. I am not sure, my husband and I have never been cruel or punished him in any way so it must be something else. I am thinking our cat, who tends to show her dislike for Ginobli. I am taking him to doggie training class next Tuesday to see maybe if it gets better. But again i would like to thank those who offered their advice it has helped me understand that there is something more going on than him being stubborn.

Ginobli, I think you might enjoy reading a book called "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. I think it's about $12-$15 at most bookstores, and it's really helpful in understanding dog behavior and learning how to communicate effectively with your dog. Usually, dogs will behave well if you can "tell" them what you want from them, and reward them for doing so.

Without reading what everyone else has said.
It sounds like your pup is being very, very submissive (submissive urination) and does NOT like the crate at all (hence the growling when you try to put the pup in it). Make the crate a happy place and don't get onto the pup for being submissive and peeing. From what I've heard that will just make it worse. Try to get your dog to be more 'outgoing' and not quite so submissive. jmo

Just want to add, in case it hasn't been said. During this special and important training and learning period, you must keep pup away from places you don't want him to be. That means keeping doors to bedrooms closed and any other areas that are a no go zone. So often I hear people complaining that their dogs chewed their shoes, or peed on their beds etc. Then keep them out. A toddler wouldn't be allowed to roam about in these rooms. So keep that in mind with your pup. Really limit his access until he can be trusted and is much more stable and settled. There are heaps of no go zones in my house, but that doesn't mean the dogs and cat don't live comfortably in here. They aren't babies of course and most of their time is spent inside with us as a family. But they know that all bedrooms are off limits, unless its sleep time, when they are allowed in mine and hubby's rooms cause thats where they sleep.

The kitchen for example. That is a definate no go zone here unless one of us in there. I don't think the kitchen is a place for wandering pets that can harm themselves or get up to mischief. Make sure your pup has his crate or a bed that he can call his own. I remember reading an entire topic on "counter surfing" once. It wasn't on this forum it was on another. I remember saying ummmm people hello, why are you alllowing your pets in the kitchen? Why give them an opportunity to get on your benches, or into your bins. Most of the responses where, that they couldn't lock them out of the kitchens, cause they loved playing in there and said it was cruel to keep them out. I was shocked.

But anyways good luck with your pup