Working vs. Conformation

Border Collies are exceptions to rules.
Their is the norm and the exception .
But we cant base the norm on THE exception.

Here is a pic of my dog Ali
http://www.planetmolosser.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2284&size=1
Here is a pic of a dog pulled from Central Asian over 50 years ago
http://www.planetmolosser.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=1978
Here is a pic of what they are breeding now.
http://centralasianshepherd.homestead.com/1Turk6-med.jpg

So NOT all guardian breeders who show and work CHANGE some preserve.
And when you preserve vs go with the flow you are OUTCASED and trolled by nasty people in the online dog course of dog expertise.
You are not longer in with the in crowd when you stay your ground while the breed changes around you. Very sad and most people bend and go with the flow .

Mafia princess exactly so it is not AKC but the breeders who send out substandard dogs under HIGH profiles handlers and the judges feel the pressure to put up what the famous handler is showing.

MONEY talks it always will.

at this show i went to, i also noticed that the dobes competing were shorter and kinda slightly "chunkier" then the other tall lean dobes i'd seen.
i like the look of shows dobes better i think.
but i havn't had a lot to do with that breed really

I miss the Dobes of the 80's I liked size and bone.
I also fell in love with some natural ear ones too ( dont shoot me).

The CKC/AKC I believe do require closed stud books. With rigorous culling for what ever trait that will kill breeds. Now to qualify this, when I am done school I can take one more course and write my papers as a clinical genetisist. So genetics and viable pop sizes fascinate me.

Now you're one of my favorite people ever. I didn't have the attention span to do that, so I did rocks instead

Its scary enough considering BCs, Labs and GSDs, now think about the breeds which register 10 litters per year, how long can they last before collapsing? The American Water Spaniel for example has a ton of genetic problems. For a 40lb dog hip displaysia is a major problem, they also have eye and epilepsy problems. It has allowed them the retain a great deal of working ability, since its pretty much not had the chance to be bred out, even if they wanted to.

Luckily, the breeders don't, but its still going to face genetic problems down the line.

Ok, now I am going to try this for the THIRD time, (my computer keeps crashing lol)
Breed standards do change, at least they do in the show ring if not yet on paper.
Good grief, the changes that have already happened within my breed the Jrt since it was taken into AKC just a few short years ago is amazing.
Oh pardon me, they now call them Parsons lol.
A bunch of breeders wanted the JRTCA (were my dogs are Reg'd) to seek Recognition with the AKC. The JRTCA said NO.
These breeders all said the same thing................we wont change the breed...the standard wont change...........we will continue to work our dogs.....etc.
The Jrt will be different, they said. EGO's. How could they possibly think that they would change history??? I would be willing to bet that many years ago, there were breeders of other working breeds that didn't want their breed in KC, they lost, the standards changed.
Now those folks (many of them at least), HAD to change what they were breeding to be successful in the ring. Oh but they have complained about the chest sizes, over sized dogs, poor coats, straight angulation on the front and over angulation behind in the recent years.
They had all the best intentions in the world, but it is the ones who come after them, especially the ones with the coin that dictate what happens in and out of the show ring.
How could a Judge, that has NEVER worked a terrier in their life, know the importance of a small flexible, spannable, correct shaped chest?? They can't, although they tried to span the Jrts that came into their rings. But doing the motions doesn't compare to the knowledge that is needed behind it.
Gezzz I saw the winning photo of a bitch that was Best of Opposite at Westminster, I just about choked when I saw that photo!! That was BEST???What a joke, although I printed it off and took that photo when we went hunting, every working terrier person there just SADLY shook their heads.
I am glad they changed the name to Parson............there is no way I want ANYONE to think that is MY breed. Amazing considering that those dogs came from the SAME Registry that mine are in now...........go figure. I don't believe for one second that standards don't change, not when I have viewed it happening NOW.

Take care
Lynn

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

Excellent POST!!All I ask you guys is when you here the SAME thing in Rare breeds. Do NOT fall but it is rare crap or the bullshit you read on websites with no reference material.

Simply history is changed all the time and rewritten to HIDE facts and to create propaganda to help sell unwanted dogs.

I use Central Asian Shepherd dog vs Central Asian Ovcharka.
CA Ovcharka is used by the Russians who grabbed the breeds during invasion
_ cold war.

The New Ovcharka is HUGE , too big to work , have a different bite with a different standard and are bred for figthing and the show ring.
But they are stunning , and can win more in the ring.
Life spans have decreased and health issued have doubled in the 7 yrs that the standard was changed. Standard written in Russia 2000. REJECTED BY FCI for 7 years. So only the Russian dogs are bred to this standard as well as the Ukraine.

The Shepherd dogs are generic working dogs that are big not huge.
With correct scizzor bites, and a great work ethic that the Ovcharkas do NOT have in Central Asians. These dogs are bred to the ORIGINAL standard written in the 1920's.
They are NOT dog aggressive by pack dog terrortial dominant.
They are NOT owner challenging accepting leadership with no questions.
But they are a landrace of breeds from over 5 countries spanning 10' of thousands of miles.

So they all do NOT look like show dogs .They do NOT match and were bred to blend into the colors of the sheep they work and or the landscape.

Why cant they just admit they took a new direction with the breed selecting certain traits from a natural vs man made breed. And call them PROPERTY of the motherland.

Vs claiming all the research and pics showing different dogs from the 20's - the 80-s are WRONG and the last type set in the 20 years is "CORRECT"

It would be equal to us American taken credit for the BUFFALO.
We created the Buffalo? or was it here naturally with the Indians?

Oh well thanks for my mourning rant.
I did show some JRTS back before AKC and they were angrey as hell AKC was taking them and I could see why.

E G O S & MONEY
And if anyone tries to claim it is my EGO wanting BOO KOO Bucks.
I will say this the Show/figthing line dogs go for 3k-25k .
My dogs are no where near that .
No one is going to pay 3k or close to that for a working dog ( unless they are starting a kennel and need dogs from proven OFA PH Champion WORKING stock)