The Trainers Game
- Thread starter adojrts
- Start date
Nice that you could touch her in less than 4 days!! I'm impressed. :hail:
Now tell us the story of what happened when she was with you.
And I used that tactic myself when I brought Tyr home and he was so scared and car sick and violently shaking. I almost turned around and returned him - glad I didn't though - but I brought out Morgan who is great with puppies and I let him watch her and me play with each other. He didn't have as many issues, so it was only a matter of 20 minutes for him to totally settle in...
The first thing that I did was put an x-pen in the diningroom and I let out my alpha male (remember that they had DA/Reactivity problems with her as well).
I let them get to know each other through the x-pen, he soon was ignoring her and her responses had been good with him. I then let each of my dogs out one at a time for an intro, all went well. She was good as long as I didn't get to close and she was interacting with my dogs on and off.
I then started working and playing with my dogs, letting her watch. I never spoke to her nor looked at her and never made eye contact with her. As far as I was concerned she wasn't there.
Next day, I carefully introduced her to my dogs one at a time, until all dogs were loose in the house together. It went well, no fights. She was starting to play with my dogs and appeared to be very happy as long as no human was near.
I then started working with my dogs while she was loose with them, again ignoring her, but many times she would forget how close she got to me. She would then start to back away, crouching and growling/snarling etc. If at anytime she started to do that, I would walk away, ignoring her. Interesting thing happened at that point, anytime she growled at me etc, my dogs would ignore her also, would leave her and follow me away lol. If she wasn't growling I would roll a treat towards her, I had to say her name at this point (only time I spoke her) because this told my dogs that it was hers and they were to not take it. But this would also make her growl/snarl, walk away again, ignoring by me and my dogs. She quickly learned that growling/snarling wasn't working for her and she stopped.
Now she would stand quietly and wait for a treat, but it had to be rolled to her. By not looking at her and keeping both hands low (I was sitting) and not moving she would come up and take a treat/food from my palm. I then closed my hand with the treat, she had to touch my hand before it would open and offer the treat, quickly she was sliding her jaw along my hand. If I moved a hair, she would fly backwards but at least she wasn't bitting. So I had to teach her that just because I moved it wasn't a threat to her. I held both hands out, the left a little bit foreward, the right holding the treat, the left hand was still the right hand was low an moving in very small slow circles.
Give her the reward for not growling and for touching the left hand, but gave the reward with the right.
She came to me on a Friday mid afternoon, on Tuesday morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I came home and let her out of her crate she was very excited to see me. I knew she wanted to make the leap of faith.
I squatted down, hung my hands down off my legs between my legs and turned my head away........she came under my hands placing my hands on her back, almost crawling on the floor. I started to move my fingers slowly and petted/scratching her, this lasted for about 20 seconds, then she took off flying through the house at mach 1. A very happy and excited dog. I never moved, when she came back she put herself again under my hands. From that point on I could touch her anywheres and even pick her up as time progressed.
Two days later, I called a dog friend over to handler her, I didn't want to be the only one she allowed to handle her. She quickly progressed to my husband and son being able to touch and pet her. Within a week, I had her in town, meeting and greeting strangers with lots of rewards.
Ok, who's got the next case???
I let them get to know each other through the x-pen, he soon was ignoring her and her responses had been good with him. I then let each of my dogs out one at a time for an intro, all went well. She was good as long as I didn't get to close and she was interacting with my dogs on and off.
I then started working and playing with my dogs, letting her watch. I never spoke to her nor looked at her and never made eye contact with her. As far as I was concerned she wasn't there.
Next day, I carefully introduced her to my dogs one at a time, until all dogs were loose in the house together. It went well, no fights. She was starting to play with my dogs and appeared to be very happy as long as no human was near.
I then started working with my dogs while she was loose with them, again ignoring her, but many times she would forget how close she got to me. She would then start to back away, crouching and growling/snarling etc. If at anytime she started to do that, I would walk away, ignoring her. Interesting thing happened at that point, anytime she growled at me etc, my dogs would ignore her also, would leave her and follow me away lol. If she wasn't growling I would roll a treat towards her, I had to say her name at this point (only time I spoke her) because this told my dogs that it was hers and they were to not take it. But this would also make her growl/snarl, walk away again, ignoring by me and my dogs. She quickly learned that growling/snarling wasn't working for her and she stopped.
Now she would stand quietly and wait for a treat, but it had to be rolled to her. By not looking at her and keeping both hands low (I was sitting) and not moving she would come up and take a treat/food from my palm. I then closed my hand with the treat, she had to touch my hand before it would open and offer the treat, quickly she was sliding her jaw along my hand. If I moved a hair, she would fly backwards but at least she wasn't bitting. So I had to teach her that just because I moved it wasn't a threat to her. I held both hands out, the left a little bit foreward, the right holding the treat, the left hand was still the right hand was low an moving in very small slow circles.
Give her the reward for not growling and for touching the left hand, but gave the reward with the right.
She came to me on a Friday mid afternoon, on Tuesday morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I came home and let her out of her crate she was very excited to see me. I knew she wanted to make the leap of faith.
I squatted down, hung my hands down off my legs between my legs and turned my head away........she came under my hands placing my hands on her back, almost crawling on the floor. I started to move my fingers slowly and petted/scratching her, this lasted for about 20 seconds, then she took off flying through the house at mach 1. A very happy and excited dog. I never moved, when she came back she put herself again under my hands. From that point on I could touch her anywheres and even pick her up as time progressed.
Two days later, I called a dog friend over to handler her, I didn't want to be the only one she allowed to handle her. She quickly progressed to my husband and son being able to touch and pet her. Within a week, I had her in town, meeting and greeting strangers with lots of rewards.
Ok, who's got the next case???
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How about a 4mo old doxie puppy showing extremely fearful behavior toward some people, children and all dogs. Ears back, tail tucked, and Screaming if they enter the same room or look at him from across the street. Had shown same fearful behaviors at a young age (8wks...). Owners tried to work past it by ignoring fearful behaviors, and rewarding quite and calm behavior and continue to introduce to new people with little progress. They also tried their version of "flooding" by putting the puppy in the same room with a very well behaved and mellow female westie. He screamed for a good ten mins before he peed, and then allowed himself to be sniffed. Then he wanted to play...
He knows sit and they are working on a more solid stay, and leave it.
ETA: the owners are frustrated with no progress, and the SCREAMING. He is deff a screamer. They are considering rehoming
He knows sit and they are working on a more solid stay, and leave it.
ETA: the owners are frustrated with no progress, and the SCREAMING. He is deff a screamer. They are considering rehoming
Is this a problem that you've solved, now? It kinda sounds like it's an ongoing problem - "The owners are considering rehoming"
For only having the dog about two months, they sure have tried a lot of different methods. Is there a professional trainer advising them on those methods?
Have they done any clicker training? They could start by working on clicking as soon as he looks at another dog or person (before he starts screaming), to teach him that looking at scary things is very rewarding.
For only having the dog about two months, they sure have tried a lot of different methods. Is there a professional trainer advising them on those methods?
Have they done any clicker training? They could start by working on clicking as soon as he looks at another dog or person (before he starts screaming), to teach him that looking at scary things is very rewarding.
Questions:
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)?
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
I would have a CERF (eyes) and BAER (hearing) tests done, asap.
First thing I would do is find this pup a mentor that is kind and very tolerante of pups, let the older wiser dog be its leader in the beginning for all new experiences. Of course working within the pups comfort zone, combined with some regular positive based obedience training. I would also play the Noise Game, start with soft noises like tapping a pot with my fingers, clicking and rewarding for positive responses progressing to louder and sharper noises as within the comfort zone.
I would have a puppy circle with one friend, letting the pup go between the two people for its dinner. As the pup becomes comfortable with this, I would add ONE new friend and so on. Make sure the new people don't reach for the pup, look at it, keep their bobies turned slightly away at first until the pup in comfortable with facing them straight on. They also not make eye contact at first. I would start this in the home, then move to the backyard, then to the front yard, then to the neighbors yard (lol if allowed ) etc.
Keep it to baby steps and NEVER punish for a fears/screaming etc.
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)?
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
I would have a CERF (eyes) and BAER (hearing) tests done, asap.
First thing I would do is find this pup a mentor that is kind and very tolerante of pups, let the older wiser dog be its leader in the beginning for all new experiences. Of course working within the pups comfort zone, combined with some regular positive based obedience training. I would also play the Noise Game, start with soft noises like tapping a pot with my fingers, clicking and rewarding for positive responses progressing to louder and sharper noises as within the comfort zone.
I would have a puppy circle with one friend, letting the pup go between the two people for its dinner. As the pup becomes comfortable with this, I would add ONE new friend and so on. Make sure the new people don't reach for the pup, look at it, keep their bobies turned slightly away at first until the pup in comfortable with facing them straight on. They also not make eye contact at first. I would start this in the home, then move to the backyard, then to the front yard, then to the neighbors yard (lol if allowed ) etc.
Keep it to baby steps and NEVER punish for a fears/screaming etc.
corgipower - What was their idea of "introducing" him -- were they having people get up close to pet him?
No, that would be waaay to much for the poor pup to handle.
The first 'step' goal was just entering the same room as him
lizzybeth727 - No, its a problem that I was attempting to work on when certain circumstances permitted me from doing any more. I had made some progress, however. I'm worried that he'll regress without more play
The only person they've talked to about this other than me is a petsmart trainer... joy
He was afraid of the clicker initially, so instead of working with that they were going to stick with verbal markers.
adojrts - Questions:
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)? yes
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
Stayed in same pen with mom until 10wks, then separated. Technically still in the same house now.
Despite living with dogs, he does not seem to have very many 'dog manners' with them. He bites at faces, and ignores warning growls and snarls. Dogs outside of the group of ones he knows he screams if they even look at him.
Very good advice - I was doing similar.
I was staying in his backyard (he's typically very confident and comfortable there) with Maddie and just letting a friend in. We'd go and sit on the ground of the deck and chat between us. Maddie would model approaching someone new (she usually sits for petting) and I would praise and treat quiet, curious, or calm behavior from him. Now he's fine with that friend every time she comes around, so I did the same with her sister. We would also meet them at new places. Then I met a co-worker in front of the house, on lead. I stood back by the house, and only moved when he was quiet and actually pulling toward her (I didn't want him to feel rushed or restricted by the leash). It took some time, but it worked. The next time he saw her he was fine, wiggling his butt and wanting to be petted.
I was working on doing the same with a 10 yr old girl (she was awesome following my directions) and we didn't make much progress. She had to go home, and I never got chance to work with him again.
No, that would be waaay to much for the poor pup to handle.
The first 'step' goal was just entering the same room as him
lizzybeth727 - No, its a problem that I was attempting to work on when certain circumstances permitted me from doing any more. I had made some progress, however. I'm worried that he'll regress without more play
The only person they've talked to about this other than me is a petsmart trainer... joy
He was afraid of the clicker initially, so instead of working with that they were going to stick with verbal markers.
adojrts - Questions:
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)? yes
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
Stayed in same pen with mom until 10wks, then separated. Technically still in the same house now.
Despite living with dogs, he does not seem to have very many 'dog manners' with them. He bites at faces, and ignores warning growls and snarls. Dogs outside of the group of ones he knows he screams if they even look at him.
Very good advice - I was doing similar.
I was staying in his backyard (he's typically very confident and comfortable there) with Maddie and just letting a friend in. We'd go and sit on the ground of the deck and chat between us. Maddie would model approaching someone new (she usually sits for petting) and I would praise and treat quiet, curious, or calm behavior from him. Now he's fine with that friend every time she comes around, so I did the same with her sister. We would also meet them at new places. Then I met a co-worker in front of the house, on lead. I stood back by the house, and only moved when he was quiet and actually pulling toward her (I didn't want him to feel rushed or restricted by the leash). It took some time, but it worked. The next time he saw her he was fine, wiggling his butt and wanting to be petted.
I was working on doing the same with a 10 yr old girl (she was awesome following my directions
) and we didn't make much progress. She had to go home, and I never got chance to work with him again.
Non-Trainer Training problem?
1) new 8 week old female Standard Schnauzer...definately Alpha pistol type.
2) Older 6 yr old neutered male ACD not happy with the addition.
3) Cat not happy with the addition
4) She now considers Cat and other dogs as below her in the social order or as enemies, not sure which. This is 2nd day. She sees other dog, she barks and growls (unless he barks, then she goes to her corner.) Cat hissed & growled at her. Now she barks at cat and wants to attack said cat.
5) Since she is so young I am worried about her getting injured, but I need to figure out how to balance the scales? She has been whining and jumping up and getting alot of attention that way. Since she has gotten so domineering so soon, I have negated that response. She has been very good about everything but the word "no". She does recognize me as Alpha Mama and protector.
All advice welcome.
1) new 8 week old female Standard Schnauzer...definately Alpha pistol type.
2) Older 6 yr old neutered male ACD not happy with the addition.
3) Cat not happy with the addition
4) She now considers Cat and other dogs as below her in the social order or as enemies, not sure which. This is 2nd day. She sees other dog, she barks and growls (unless he barks, then she goes to her corner.) Cat hissed & growled at her. Now she barks at cat and wants to attack said cat.
5) Since she is so young I am worried about her getting injured, but I need to figure out how to balance the scales? She has been whining and jumping up and getting alot of attention that way. Since she has gotten so domineering so soon, I have negated that response. She has been very good about everything but the word "no". She does recognize me as Alpha Mama and protector.
All advice welcome.
corgipower - What was their idea of "introducing" him -- were they having people get up close to pet him?
No, that would be waaay to much for the poor pup to handle.
The first 'step' goal was just entering the same room as him
lizzybeth727 - No, its a problem that I was attempting to work on when certain circumstances permitted me from doing any more. I had made some progress, however. I'm worried that he'll regress without more play
The only person they've talked to about this other than me is a petsmart trainer... joy
He was afraid of the clicker initially, so instead of working with that they were going to stick with verbal markers.
adojrts - Questions:
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)? yes
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
Stayed in same pen with mom until 10wks, then separated. Technically still in the same house now.
Despite living with dogs, he does not seem to have very many 'dog manners' with them. He bites at faces, and ignores warning growls and snarls. Dogs outside of the group of ones he knows he screams if they even look at him.
Very good advice - I was doing similar.
I was staying in his backyard (he's typically very confident and comfortable there) with Maddie and just letting a friend in. We'd go and sit on the ground of the deck and chat between us. Maddie would model approaching someone new (she usually sits for petting) and I would praise and treat quiet, curious, or calm behavior from him. Now he's fine with that friend every time she comes around, so I did the same with her sister. We would also meet them at new places. Then I met a co-worker in front of the house, on lead. I stood back by the house, and only moved when he was quiet and actually pulling toward her (I didn't want him to feel rushed or restricted by the leash). It took some time, but it worked. The next time he saw her he was fine, wiggling his butt and wanting to be petted.
I was working on doing the same with a 10 yr old girl (she was awesome following my directions) and we didn't make much progress. She had to go home, and I never got chance to work with him again.
No, that would be waaay to much for the poor pup to handle.
The first 'step' goal was just entering the same room as him
lizzybeth727 - No, its a problem that I was attempting to work on when certain circumstances permitted me from doing any more. I had made some progress, however. I'm worried that he'll regress without more play
The only person they've talked to about this other than me is a petsmart trainer... joy
He was afraid of the clicker initially, so instead of working with that they were going to stick with verbal markers.
adojrts - Questions:
Was the pup a singleton (only pup in litter)? yes
How old was the pup when taken from dam and littermates?
Stayed in same pen with mom until 10wks, then separated. Technically still in the same house now.
Despite living with dogs, he does not seem to have very many 'dog manners' with them. He bites at faces, and ignores warning growls and snarls. Dogs outside of the group of ones he knows he screams if they even look at him.
Very good advice - I was doing similar.
I was staying in his backyard (he's typically very confident and comfortable there) with Maddie and just letting a friend in. We'd go and sit on the ground of the deck and chat between us. Maddie would model approaching someone new (she usually sits for petting) and I would praise and treat quiet, curious, or calm behavior from him. Now he's fine with that friend every time she comes around, so I did the same with her sister. We would also meet them at new places. Then I met a co-worker in front of the house, on lead. I stood back by the house, and only moved when he was quiet and actually pulling toward her (I didn't want him to feel rushed or restricted by the leash). It took some time, but it worked. The next time he saw her he was fine, wiggling his butt and wanting to be petted.
I was working on doing the same with a 10 yr old girl (she was awesome following my directions
) and we didn't make much progress. She had to go home, and I never got chance to work with him again.
Can they not use his dam to teach him better manners and socializing?
Why would you classify her behaviour as Alpha and domineering??? Sounds like a scared puppy to me, that is in a new place and it doesn't know how to behave or what to do.
Why would you even use the word 'no' with such a young pup, let alone expect her to know what it means??
Gezzz I hate this alpha crap.............
Why would you even use the word 'no' with such a young pup, let alone expect her to know what it means??
Gezzz I hate this alpha crap.............
I think you cannot classify her as "alpha" and "domineering" if she is 1.) only 8 weeks old, and 2.) only been in your house for two days. Adojrts is right, she's much more likely just a scared puppy who's figured out that when she barks at the other animals you will come and "save" her from them.
What do you mean by this: "Since she has gotten so domineering so soon, I have negated that response. "
or this: "She now considers Cat and other dogs as below her in the social order or as enemies" - which other dogs has she met and become enemies with? Is it just the one dog?
I'd never use the word "no" with a puppy this young (course, I never use the word no for anything for my dog) - it's much more effective to tell your dog what you want; she's chewing on the sofa, remove her from the sofa and redirect to a toy; if she's jumping on the furnature, say "off" and remove her from the furnature; if she's nipping you, stand up and ignore her for several minutes.
When are you starting puppy classes with her???
What do you mean by this: "Since she has gotten so domineering so soon, I have negated that response. "
or this: "She now considers Cat and other dogs as below her in the social order or as enemies" - which other dogs has she met and become enemies with? Is it just the one dog?
I'd never use the word "no" with a puppy this young (course, I never use the word no for anything for my dog) - it's much more effective to tell your dog what you want; she's chewing on the sofa, remove her from the sofa and redirect to a toy; if she's jumping on the furnature, say "off" and remove her from the furnature; if she's nipping you, stand up and ignore her for several minutes.
When are you starting puppy classes with her???
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Ok...My dog Maggie is a Boston terrier and has been passed from home to home her whole life. I have had her for 2 years and she is about 5 years old and she will be here for the rest of her life. A few problems with her are growling, she growls all the time, she will growl when picked up and when moved. She is VERY affectionate other than the growling she will give kisses and cuddle in your lap for hours. I have been bitten a few times if I accidently pushed her too far. The first day she was here I rubbed her gently with my foot and she bit my toe. About 2 weeks ago I quickly picked her up because she needed to come in the house and I guess I picked her up to fast/rough and she ended up biting me in the face. Any suggestions?