Purebred vs. Mixed Breeds
- Thread starter BudgetsDad
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well, i just dont think its right to be breeding "designer dogs" and selling them for huge amounts of money when there are mixes all over shelters that need homes! the ones in the shelters could very well be a labradoodle, but is in a shelter so they arent labled a designer dog. i dont know, it seems like they are promoting mixed breeds as something that is full bread and making money off of it when there are millions of mixes that need homes anyway.
Mordy says it all. To me the " accidents " that are dumped daily can be great dogs. BYBs are something else.....so are " fashion" ( BY) breeders. New breeds through combinations take years of breedings , trial and error, until the right mix has been proven for betterment of the resulting breed. None of our dogs as we know them today would have ever been developed had this not happened. Back when there was trial and error for our now breeds, there were no ads, etc to sell the " culls" ...It takes years to do it right. I had a friend 30 years ago who had what she laughingly called a snoozle ...a free mutt from " surprise" litter. Today that breeder could ask $250 for a mutt ! I would never, ever , consider any " new" breed without at least 30 years of research and study. Mixed breeds are great !!! But though rescue.....don't ever pay for a pup through an ad. If you see " Free puppies" fine....otherwise they go to the HS.
in a way there is always a need. when your favorite breed was first thought up I imagine there were people who thought there was no need. Max with the gsd, I'm sure some collie lovers and other sheepdog fans didnt think it was needed. doberman? Im sure someone was making some money breeding another breed for the tax collectors and thought it wasnt nessacary to develop a better one.
creating a new breed is not a problem. as long as it is done ethically, responsibly, and with a deffinite purpose. I mean come on, what was it? the chihuahua or incan crested dog? one or both of those (maybe it was a different breed) was created mainly for warming beds.
creating a new breed is not a problem. as long as it is done ethically, responsibly, and with a deffinite purpose. I mean come on, what was it? the chihuahua or incan crested dog? one or both of those (maybe it was a different breed) was created mainly for warming beds.
This is how I see it. I have two purebreds and 1 mixed breed.( I rescued the mixed from a store where someone left her) when you are getting a purebred you know the the hereditary traits you are getting,(from a reputable breeder)
when you get a mixed breed you cannot always be sure what mix has occured. You can be told one thing and it may end up another. I don't have anything against mixed breeds but, most of them end up abandoned or in a shelter due to people. It's not the animals fault. If more people were resposible with their animals there would not be as many mixed breeds on the street.( so to speak) Yes, the purebreds we have today were at one time bred from different breeds. The cause and effect was different than it is today.
when you get a mixed breed you cannot always be sure what mix has occured. You can be told one thing and it may end up another. I don't have anything against mixed breeds but, most of them end up abandoned or in a shelter due to people. It's not the animals fault. If more people were resposible with their animals there would not be as many mixed breeds on the street.( so to speak) Yes, the purebreds we have today were at one time bred from different breeds. The cause and effect was different than it is today.
Sorry !! It's been a long day .... I can't digest your post.....I can't say 200 years ago what went through the minds of " Breeders" who wanted what is today the Golden Retriever. I'm not into the thoughts of those who many years ago researched and bred dogs for whatever they are called today. What I ( and many others ) are against is a BYB who copulate 2 different breeds and sell them as a breed of their own. These are ALL MUTTS , unless are researched and bred by reputable breeders for many years.! I can't breed all the backgrounds that make up a Golden Retriever and call them a golden ! Come on, get real !
I guess. I just can't think of any other breed of dog that needs to be bred. But, I see your point. My post was very generalized. I guess it's possible that there are some things that a new breed of dog could well-serve.
But I still def. agree that if "starting" a new breed, it should be well researched with many years poured into it, before it is actually bred for sale and called an actual breed.
But I still def. agree that if "starting" a new breed, it should be well researched with many years poured into it, before it is actually bred for sale and called an actual breed.
In my opinion, if a person was really intent on creating a new breed and wanted to do it responsibly, then they would get themselves together with others of like mind, form a 'fanciers' club, lay down a standard to adhere to, cull dogs from the breeding program that don't adhere, and when they start testing for genetic/heredity issues in their breeding programs, prior to breeding.
They wouldn't use 1st or even 2nd generation dogs and claim that the breed is created and let's get it recognized!! It's not something that will happen over one or two generations.
They wouldn't use 1st or even 2nd generation dogs and claim that the breed is created and let's get it recognized!! It's not something that will happen over one or two generations.
I agree rottnpagan. by culling I would hope they would not breed those dogs, and the pups they produce that arent close enough to the goal to be bred to would be given good homes. and no it couldnt be 1st or 2nd generation. it would take a lot more than that. I may be wrong but if I were going to create a new breed I would expect it to take atleast 10 generations.
and there may not be a job that a new breed could do that no other breed is already doing. but a new breed might be able to do it even better.
and there may not be a job that a new breed could do that no other breed is already doing. but a new breed might be able to do it even better.
OK Here's my input:
I chose Narcan based on his parents backgrounds. His mother is out of show-dog lines and his father is out of Field Trial lines. Judging from the pedigree and looking at the titles, both parents had a notable history. For those of you that are into the Labrador FT lines, he is out of a Candlewood lineage. (Candlewoods Lean Mac, CWs Tanks a Lot, and San Jaoqiun Honcho on the fathers side.) I chose this because I wanted a pup that would make a great hunting companion and he's got the brains and the physical abilities to do it. Im going for his SHR title this spring if I find the time or if I can pay someone one to handle him for me. Hopefully within the next 2-3 years he will attain his HRCH (Hunting Retriever Champion). I probably could go higher to get his Grand but thats a tough test. Over 500 competed in the Fall Grand this year and only 20 either titled or got passes.
When you breed you need to ask yourself these questions:
What am I bringing to the table?
How am I advancing this breed?
How can I improve this breed based on my chosen breeding?
What are my chances of genetic problems (in Labs this is OFA and CERT)?
What qualities do I want to see in this litter and future litters out of this line?
There's alot more than just putting a male in the pen with a female in heat and lettin the male hump.
Also, as far as accidental breedings - those can be prevented. If you never plan to breed have them de-sexed. If you do plan on breeding, keep your males out of range of the females. Females sometimes tend to have a "silent heat".
Now Im in an odd situation, while I dont think my boy will ever be bred, I do have to leave him intact for these tests. When he gets his HRCH, I will probably at that time retire him from the tests, have him castrated then we will start getting into SAR work. The skills needed for a hunt test teaches the dog to use its nose much the same way it is used for SAR work.
Also when breeding check for hip dysplasia, and cataracts, these are two major genetic problems seen in labs today. I plan on getting him checked at 24 mos of age.
With all of these "designer breeds" coming about these days including the labradoodle and the fictious "silver lab", these are basically mutts that are being over priced, and you can find many lab - poodle mixes in shelters across the country, you can get your "designer breed" considerably cheaper (for around $100 you can adopt it, have vaccinations, and microchip installed). As for the "silver lab" that "breed" is a chocolate lab mixed with a weimeraner.
Not that one dog is better than the other, it is just that for the most part for purebreds, alot more thought is put into it than the mixed breed.
-Dix
I chose Narcan based on his parents backgrounds. His mother is out of show-dog lines and his father is out of Field Trial lines. Judging from the pedigree and looking at the titles, both parents had a notable history. For those of you that are into the Labrador FT lines, he is out of a Candlewood lineage. (Candlewoods Lean Mac, CWs Tanks a Lot, and San Jaoqiun Honcho on the fathers side.) I chose this because I wanted a pup that would make a great hunting companion and he's got the brains and the physical abilities to do it. Im going for his SHR title this spring if I find the time or if I can pay someone one to handle him for me. Hopefully within the next 2-3 years he will attain his HRCH (Hunting Retriever Champion). I probably could go higher to get his Grand but thats a tough test. Over 500 competed in the Fall Grand this year and only 20 either titled or got passes.
When you breed you need to ask yourself these questions:
What am I bringing to the table?
How am I advancing this breed?
How can I improve this breed based on my chosen breeding?
What are my chances of genetic problems (in Labs this is OFA and CERT)?
What qualities do I want to see in this litter and future litters out of this line?
There's alot more than just putting a male in the pen with a female in heat and lettin the male hump.
Also, as far as accidental breedings - those can be prevented. If you never plan to breed have them de-sexed. If you do plan on breeding, keep your males out of range of the females. Females sometimes tend to have a "silent heat".
Now Im in an odd situation, while I dont think my boy will ever be bred, I do have to leave him intact for these tests. When he gets his HRCH, I will probably at that time retire him from the tests, have him castrated then we will start getting into SAR work. The skills needed for a hunt test teaches the dog to use its nose much the same way it is used for SAR work.
Also when breeding check for hip dysplasia, and cataracts, these are two major genetic problems seen in labs today. I plan on getting him checked at 24 mos of age.
With all of these "designer breeds" coming about these days including the labradoodle and the fictious "silver lab", these are basically mutts that are being over priced, and you can find many lab - poodle mixes in shelters across the country, you can get your "designer breed" considerably cheaper (for around $100 you can adopt it, have vaccinations, and microchip installed). As for the "silver lab" that "breed" is a chocolate lab mixed with a weimeraner.
Not that one dog is better than the other, it is just that for the most part for purebreds, alot more thought is put into it than the mixed breed.
-Dix
oh of course, most mixed breeds are accidents, some (designer breeds) are intentional but almost always the breeders lie about them. I say almost always because I guess there might be a good breeder of labradoodles or border mastiffs (border collie x englich mastiff, hope I made that up and no one will think its a good idea) out there somewhere who does health and temperament tests and carefully selects breeding stock and homes for puppies.
there are a lot of bad breeders of purebreds as well, sadly there are probably way more bad breeders than good breeders. no matter what type of dog you are looking for, it is up to YOU to do a lot of research. dont just research the breeds, which is deffinetly important, but find out how to pick a breeder.
if you want a mixed breed then go to your local shelter, they will almost certainly have too many. if you want to intentionally mix two breeds together then you should have a deffinite goal from the mixing, plan on breeding for multiple generations before acheiving your goal, be ready to not ever acheive your goal (labradoodles were intended for hypo allergenic assistance dog, failed and was given up by the responsible breeders), provide homes for any and all of the dogs you produce wether they meet your goal or not, and get a large group of others who also want to acheive the same goal. be ready to do a lot of health and temperament tests. and much much more.
it is theoretically possible that after several generations of crossing gsd's with labs, bloodhounds, chihuahuas, english mastiffs and pugs that you would get a breed that is superior to each of those in certain ways and is a superior all around dog to the gsd. but I personally dont like the idea and I deffinetly wont be testing it out.
so in my opinion there is nothing wrong with intentionally mixing two or more breeds if it is done ethically, responsibly, intelligently and with a goal in mind (not $$$).
accidental breedings are NOT an excuse. they can be easily avoided.
dixie said above that her boy cant be neutered right now. if thats your situation, or you plan to breed but the dog isnt old enough to have all the tests done, Im sure dixie is extra careful with her boy. Im sure you (dixie) normally do everything you can to prevent any dog from escaping your fence, house, or simply escaping your supervision/security in any way. but I bet since your boy isnt neutered and COULD maybe breed a female that you are extra carefull to prevent that.
my wife just adopted a kitten and she is only (the rescue and our vet guess) 10-12 weeks old. she cant be spayed yet because our vet refuses to spay/neuter before 6 months of age unless there is a known health risk like a kitten or puppy has a tumor on the ovaries or testes. it is possible for a cat or dog to become pregnant at or before 6 months of age. we have a neutered male cat too. we are very carefull to keep him inside even though he couldnt get a female pregnant. we are being very very careful to not let the female get outside. of course partly that is because either of them could run away/get lost, get stollen, get killed by a dog-coyote or hawk or owl, get hit by a car, get sick or any number of things. but we are extra careful with her (okay, not right now) because she could get pregnant.
there are enough unwanted pets out there. no one has any excuse or right to have an accidental breeding.
thats what i thought you meant rottnpagan but I wanted to specify incase anyone reading this thread thought you/I/we meant killing when we said culling.
there are a lot of bad breeders of purebreds as well, sadly there are probably way more bad breeders than good breeders. no matter what type of dog you are looking for, it is up to YOU to do a lot of research. dont just research the breeds, which is deffinetly important, but find out how to pick a breeder.
if you want a mixed breed then go to your local shelter, they will almost certainly have too many. if you want to intentionally mix two breeds together then you should have a deffinite goal from the mixing, plan on breeding for multiple generations before acheiving your goal, be ready to not ever acheive your goal (labradoodles were intended for hypo allergenic assistance dog, failed and was given up by the responsible breeders), provide homes for any and all of the dogs you produce wether they meet your goal or not, and get a large group of others who also want to acheive the same goal. be ready to do a lot of health and temperament tests. and much much more.
it is theoretically possible that after several generations of crossing gsd's with labs, bloodhounds, chihuahuas, english mastiffs and pugs that you would get a breed that is superior to each of those in certain ways and is a superior all around dog to the gsd. but I personally dont like the idea and I deffinetly wont be testing it out.
so in my opinion there is nothing wrong with intentionally mixing two or more breeds if it is done ethically, responsibly, intelligently and with a goal in mind (not $$$).
accidental breedings are NOT an excuse. they can be easily avoided.
dixie said above that her boy cant be neutered right now. if thats your situation, or you plan to breed but the dog isnt old enough to have all the tests done, Im sure dixie is extra careful with her boy. Im sure you (dixie) normally do everything you can to prevent any dog from escaping your fence, house, or simply escaping your supervision/security in any way. but I bet since your boy isnt neutered and COULD maybe breed a female that you are extra carefull to prevent that.
my wife just adopted a kitten and she is only (the rescue and our vet guess) 10-12 weeks old. she cant be spayed yet because our vet refuses to spay/neuter before 6 months of age unless there is a known health risk like a kitten or puppy has a tumor on the ovaries or testes. it is possible for a cat or dog to become pregnant at or before 6 months of age. we have a neutered male cat too. we are very carefull to keep him inside even though he couldnt get a female pregnant. we are being very very careful to not let the female get outside. of course partly that is because either of them could run away/get lost, get stollen, get killed by a dog-coyote or hawk or owl, get hit by a car, get sick or any number of things. but we are extra careful with her (okay, not right now) because she could get pregnant.
there are enough unwanted pets out there. no one has any excuse or right to have an accidental breeding.
thats what i thought you meant rottnpagan but I wanted to specify incase anyone reading this thread thought you/I/we meant killing when we said culling.