The Belgian Breeds

AgilityKrazii

Addicted to Agility
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
177
Likes
0
Points
16
#1
I'm really looking into owning one of these dogs in the future as I have been doing alot of research on all 3.
Now I know when the breed was created the Terv, Mal and Sheepdog were all considered one breed. Now when then got reconized by AKC or maybe earlier they were seperated into the 'breeds' know today.
Now I would just like to know what the main differences are between the 3 of them. Because when I was reading about them I came across info saying that the Mal can have a protective streak and be possive, yet I never came across that when researching the Terv but if they are all the same breed then that doesnt sense so thats what I would like to clear up and figure out how the 3 of them differ from each other temperament wise

Thanks in advance!
 

jess2416

Who woulda thought
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
22,560
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
NC
#2
with all your research you should know that their are 4....

Groenendael, Laekenois, Tervuren, and the Malinois. (whoops messed up one, but there are still four lol)

Good luck with your search
 
Last edited:

AgilityKrazii

Addicted to Agility
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
177
Likes
0
Points
16
#3
with all your research you should know that their are 4....

Sheepdog
Groenendael
Laekenois
Malinois

Good luck with your search
haha right, I totally forgot the 4th guy but thats because I'm only interested in the Malinois, Terv and Grodnendael(Sheepdog)
 

corgipower

Tweleve Enthusiest
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
8,233
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
here
#4
They are all high drive and high energy. Yes, Mals can be protective. Not any more so than a good GSD. Mals also can be a bit on the nervy side. I don't know about the other varieties.

The AKC did split three of them into separate breeds and dropped the fourth. The UKC and CKC recognize them as varieties of one breed. The dogs themselves do not know that they're supposed to be different breeds. You can breed a Mal to a Mal and get a Terv.
 

Pops2

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
3,072
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
UT
#5
they were always seperate breeds in belgium, the AKC & it's affiliated club lumped them together. because of this the american lines will throw sports that look like the other breeds. they aren't the only group of breeds to be lumped together. at one time the flat, curly coat & labrador were all varieties of one retreiver breed even though the brits considered them seperate breeds. it's a common problem, the AKC & their associated clubs think they know another country's dogs better than they do.
 

corgipower

Tweleve Enthusiest
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
8,233
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
here
#6
they were always seperate breeds in belgium, the AKC & it's affiliated club lumped them together. because of this the american lines will throw sports that look like the other breeds. they aren't the only group of breeds to be lumped together. at one time the flat, curly coat & labrador were all varieties of one retreiver breed even though the brits considered them seperate breeds. it's a common problem, the AKC & their associated clubs think they know another country's dogs better than they do.
Uh...You got that a little backwards. AKC is the only registry that recognizes the varieties as separate breeds.

History & Description of the Belgian Malinois

Near the end of 1891 a Belgian veterinarian by the name of Adolphe Reul, gathered more than one hundred Belgian Shepherds (also known as the Chien de Berger Belge) and their owners. He had decided to establish a breed standard for the Belgian breed. When the dogs were brought together he found them to be ununified in type. He advised the owners to breed their dogs only to other dogs of the same coat type regardless of their color. Most of the breeders agreed and a standard was drawn up. The following May the first specialty show took place and the Belgian Shepherd started its long track to uniformity.

In the early 1900's the Belgian Shepherd was recognized by the Societie Royal St. Hubert, as one breed with four varieties. In 1914 World War I broke out and the efforts of the breeders and the number of breeding dogs were diminished. Movements were made to save the breed from extinction. Breeding regulations were linnet and any dogs of quality of was recognized regardless of color. All the dogs were allowed to breed regardless of their coat color or type. As a result different variety pups were born in the litters. The Societie Royal St. Hubert registered the pups as the variety they were born and not the variety of the parents. To date this is the desired practice for determining the variety.

Around twenty years later as the breed finally started to flourish once more, war broke out once more again losing valuable breeding stock. Thankfully the loss was not as great as the first war. Many of the dogs, thousands, were brought into military service. They were used as messengers, scouts, border patrol, and Red Cross dogs.

There are four varieties of Belgian Shepherds: the Laekenois, the rough coated fawn, named for the area they were mainly developed, the Chateau de Laeken, were Queen Marie-Henriette named them her favorite; the Groenendael, the long haired black, named from the Chateau de Groenendael, were the two forbears of the variety lived, Piccard d'Uccle and a bitch named Petite; Piccard and Petite were also the forbears of the third variety, the Tervuren, the long haired fawn with black mask and points. Their black son, Duc du Groenendael, was mated to a fawn bitch, Miss, and produced the famous Milsart, the first Tervuren champion; The last variety was the Malinois, short haired fawn with black mask and points. The malinois Tomy is considered the foundation of the variety. The malinois acquired its name from the city of Malines.

In 1911 the Belgian Shepherds gained recognition by the American Kennel Club. Later in 1959 the AKC decided to split the Belgian Shepherd into separate breeds. The malinois and tervuren kept their original names, but the groenendael changed theirs to the sheepdog, and the laekenois was dropped from recognition. From 1950 to 1965 the malinois was placed into the Miscellaneous class. In 1965 the AKC gave the malinois full AKC recognition and placed them into the Working group. In 1983 they were moved into the Herding group were they reside today.

Today the topic of recombination is still in the works. There are those that oppose it and those that accept it. AKC is the ONLY registry to recognize the Belgians as separate breeds, and excludes the laekenois.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
Likes
0
Points
36
#7
This is actually something I've never understood. So if Mal is bred to a Mal, and has a Terv, does the AKC recognize it as a Terv or a Mal? (oooh, I made a tounge twister!)
I just don't get how one purebred can give birth to another without screwing up the system.
 

corgipower

Tweleve Enthusiest
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
8,233
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
here
#8
This is actually something I've never understood. So if Mal is bred to a Mal, and has a Terv, does the AKC recognize it as a Terv or a Mal? (oooh, I made a tounge twister!)
I just don't get how one purebred can give birth to another without screwing up the system.
I'm not completely sure how it works out but I think that AKC would register it as a Mal and it would not be able to show in conformation but would still be able to compete in performance events. It's not that one purebred is producing another. They're all the same breed. They just have different coats. Not really any different from breeding a pair smooth collies and getting a puppy with a rough coat.
 

AgilityKrazii

Addicted to Agility
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
177
Likes
0
Points
16
#9
Thats really weird, AKC should have just kept them one breed with varitiys like Collies I dont see the advantage in making them seperate breeds if they are all really the same breed haha talk about confusing!

Thats were I find the temperaments kind of confuseing because if they are all the same breed then what is really different temperament wise, thats what I really want to find out so I can decide which of them would be the best match for me.
 

corgipower

Tweleve Enthusiest
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
8,233
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
here
#11
Thats really weird, AKC should have just kept them one breed with varitiys like Collies I dont see the advantage in making them seperate breeds if they are all really the same breed haha talk about confusing!

Thats were I find the temperaments kind of confuseing because if they are all the same breed then what is really different temperament wise, thats what I really want to find out so I can decide which of them would be the best match for me.
Actually, AKC has proposed combining them into one breed. The parent clubs for each variety isn't going for it.

They do have similar drives and temperaments. The differences are more along the lines of differences from one bloodline to another. Even within a variety, there will be differences as breeders select for what they're breeding for. For example - a breeder selecting for agility might produce dogs that are less protective than someone breeding for police dogs.

What exactly do you mean by that?
Their stimuli threshold is low, they're quick to react, they frustrate easily.

Some have environmental soundness issues. Some have difficulty recovering. There are some really amazing Mal's who are very confident and stable.

Mal's shouldn't be nervy. Unfortunately, there are too many Mal breeders who overlook some aspects of temperament and produce weaker nerved dogs.
 

Hillside

Original Twin
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
3,048
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Des Moines, IA
#12
This is actually something I've never understood. So if Mal is bred to a Mal, and has a Terv, does the AKC recognize it as a Terv or a Mal? (oooh, I made a tounge twister!)
I just don't get how one purebred can give birth to another without screwing up the system.
Ooh! ooh! I can answer this one. A friend of mine is a Belgian person and has an...........all black Terv. At least that is what his AKC papers say. Both of his parents were registered "normal" looking Tervs, but Twister is black.
 

Pops2

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
3,072
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
UT
#13
about 15 years ago, i was taught by a dutchman (kid really as he was in his early 20s but it's what his dad, who worked mals, taught him) that chien de berger belge was a type designation like cur or coonhound. they were already seperate breeds & lines.
Reul's caution against mixing would be equivalent to cautioning bmc, catahoula, leopard cur, lacy, mt cur & plott breeders against mixing their dogs. it's not generally done but some individuals do it to make a dog suited to their specific needs. the problem for the belgians doing it was they were dealing w/ a lot less dogs total and even less in any specific breed.
the opposite side of that is lumping them all together. there is a huge amount of overlap in structure & color between all the cur breeds and if you lumped them as one breed in say britain or oz they would not necessarily see the differences so much as the similarities. in the end they would mix & evolve into one mixed cur breed in the other country especially if you had a small number of each to begin with. that is the threat the belgians faced in their OWN country & why Reul cautioned against mixing the breeds.
ETA
the nervy thing has to do w/ being overbred for reduced bite inhibition. they are notorious for biting their own handlers under high stress.
 

AgilityKrazii

Addicted to Agility
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
177
Likes
0
Points
16
#14
So the key to getting a 'normal' Mal or any other the others is just finding a good quality breeder whos dogs arent nervy.
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#15
Yes I have seen Mals bite their owners in frustration on the agility course. Tervs seem much more mellow. I think also Tervs are popular conformation dogs there are more breeders breeding for a pet temperament.
 

AgilityKrazii

Addicted to Agility
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
177
Likes
0
Points
16
#17
Yes I have seen Mals bite their owners in frustration on the agility course. Tervs seem much more mellow. I think also Tervs are popular conformation dogs there are more breeders breeding for a pet temperament.
There is actually a dog localy who is a Belgian Sheepdog(Grodendale) who does exactly that, bites the owner on an agility course out of frustration if she is late in her cues or slows down the dog is on her jumping and biting her, she has scars up and down her arms.
I think thats a training issue something that can be solved with the dog learning some rules and understanding that is not acceptable.
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#19
There is actually a dog localy who is a Belgian Sheepdog(Grodendale) who does exactly that, bites the owner on an agility course out of frustration if she is late in her cues or slows down the dog is on her jumping and biting her, she has scars up and down her arms.
I think thats a training issue something that can be solved with the dog learning some rules and understanding that is not acceptable.
That is certianly a help (the training) I have seen dogs of all breeds do it. But some of the worst culprits, even WITH some fantastic training have been Mals.
 

corgipower

Tweleve Enthusiest
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
8,233
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
here
#20
I think thats a training issue something that can be solved with the dog learning some rules and understanding that is not acceptable.
Tyr learned that it's not acceptable. Tyr was amazingly good about understanding that and respecting that. Until he turned four. With increased maturity came increased drive and increased frustration when his drives weren't satisfied.

Much of preventing it really falls on the handler's ability to not trigger it.

Do the Tervs tend to be more wary of things as pups then Mals or does it just depend on the line and or specific dog.
I have no idea about Tervs. Mals as pups tend to not be so wary. The wariness comes if they haven't been adequately socialized ~ and not all mal breeders get that part right. It's not so much wariness as it is "omgomgomgsomethingMOVED!!" and "WHOAthe ground feels different iamnotmoving!!"

A malinois definitely takes a level of experience that is easily underestimated.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top