Opie pic.

Opie was given to the WRONG home, that's the whole point. It's not even so much that he's not with Cristy, as heartbreaking as that is, it's the fact that these people are IDIOTS when it comes to dogs. They never came to see the dog they apparently "wanted so much", they already have one dog with aggression issues and Opie has a history already anyway, they can't manage one big dog, WTF are they going to do with two???

What Zoomer said. :wall:

Hopefully he'll be returned before something dramatic happens.

I know that threads have a life of their own on Chaz once posted, but I did not post this thread to become petty quibbling. I posted this thread to give you guys an update on Opie. Thank you all for your thoughts and well wishes.

These are the facts about this adoption:

- It is a younger couple, husband and wife. They visited Opie TWICE in many, many months (not counting the two or three months that FOHA was closed to everyone due to the outbreak of Canine Flu), even though they really wanted him. I suppose its worth mentioning that these two times were on the same weekend, once on Saturday and then they came back the next day, Sunday, whereupon I met them. There is a person in the process of adopting an ornery terrier mix named Tate who comes every Saturday to work with him and her dog to get them used to each other. There were adopters who adopted a pit bull and had to return him temporarily because their rental changed landlords and the new landlord said NO PIT BULLS, and they visited that dog almost every weekend for at least five months until they were able to bring him to their new home. That's what I call dedication. Why couldn't this couple have visited him at least a few more times?

- They are, of course, very nice people, but they knew little to nothing about dog behavior. The wife actually gave Opie a hug, and I had to point out that he was showing signs of being uncomfortable, and she didn't know what those were! I explained to her the meaning of whale eye, lip licking, and the ears being pinned back. I do find it quite interesting that FOHA adopts two mastiff mixes with bite histories to a couple so inexperienced.

- They were actually talked out of this adoption for a little while, but never actually "gave up" as you can see.

- Many volunteers, experienced volunteers, are uncomfortable that Opie was placed with these people. Its kind of interesting to tell a volunteer what happened to Opie, and the first thing out of their mouth is "so how long do you think before he gets returned?".

- The deciding factor in this adoption was that the dogs got along. There seemed to be little thought given to whether these people could actually handle what they were getting. There was a worry that the wife would try to walk both dogs by herself, but I think they convinced her it was not a good idea.

If Opie has to be with them, I hope that nobody gets hurt, and I hope that he can find a little happiness. Its crazy, how just EVERYONE at FOHA knows that I was Opie's person. This girl, on the staff (I think she does the cat stuff), who I hadn't ever seen before, actually asked me if I knew how Opie was. It boggled my mind how people I didn't even know knew of me and Opie.

It's a bothersome situation, for sure. I do sincerely hope that Opie finds happiness with them, if being with them is how it's going to be.

I just find it interesting that this thread was resurrected after 2 or three weeks just to comment on how we mistreated the new owners.

Well, at least everyone after that post didn't seem like they were pms' ing

So sorry I didn't look at the date. I just find such sweeping judgement from people who have never met this couple pretty shocking.

Cristy has been remarkably mature about this and she is the one who A knows the people and B lost her dog. I just wish people would reserve judgement on situations until they have 100% of the information.

Some of us have had the information Cristy and Nolu have had from the very beginning of this -- way back to the time this couple originally had trouble with the dog they already had -- problems they never seemed to fully address.

And now they have two large dogs with strong temperaments. It doesn't take a rocket scientist -- or a behaviorist -- to see that it's a recipe for disaster, with Opie potentially paying the price.

I totally agree. I just think judgement of people should be reserved unless they are there to defend themselves. I think that Cristy has handled herself very well and she is the one with the information. It is the people who have never met the adopters, making comments, that upsets me.

I don't think it is an ideal situation and I just hope Opie gets returned before he, or the other dog, gets damaged.

Most of us care a great deal more about Cristy's feelings and Opie's well being than we do about a couple who decide they *want* a dog, don't bother to visit him, get to know him, or show any signs of being concerned about his welfare. If they cared, they'd have been at FOHA at least once a week, bringing their dog to get acclimated, talking to Cristy and learning about Opie's quirks, dislikes, and favorite activities, what makes him uncomfortable, might cause another bite incident, etc.

But none of those things were important to them.

Adopting a dog like Opie is NOTHING like adopting a breed like a Papillon or a Beagle.

Filed away for future reference.

I'm not really worried about either dog getting hurt. I'm worried that Opie will hurt a person. I know what city they live in, and if Opie hurts a person, he will be impounded and it would be incredibly difficult to get him out alive. There was a case where a dog FOHA adopted out, who lived in the same city as these people, was tied outside, got loose and ran after a guy on a bike, and either bit the guy or jumped on him and clawed him. This was not a human aggressive dog, this was a dog acting purely on prey drive. FOHA had to fight this shelter, in court, to get this dog back (the shelter wanted to kill the dog). After FOHA got him back, I remember being at the shelter, having this dog in my lap licking my face, and all of us sitting around joking about what a vicious beast he was. While I'm sure the experience was probably frightening for the person on the bicycle, this was not a dog who needed to die. It was a shepherd/hound mix, btw.

That shelter does not have the best record for assessing temperament. FOHA has pulled quite a few tiny dogs from the place because that shelter wanted to euthanize them for being "too shy", or because they are being a tiny bit fear aggressive when people are reaching their gigantic hands at the dog while its cowering in the corner/in a crate. These dogs are perfectly friendly on FOHA's property.

Most people do not even know that a breed called a Fila Brasiliero even exists, let alone anything about their particular behavioral quirks. I know I wasn't the least bit prepared for what was in front of me when I met Cleo. Perhaps that's why I needed to meet her, to be shown how much I didn't know!

Opie takes a bit to really get comfortable in new surroundings. I wonder what they'll do when he does get comfortable, and starts getting pushy, and testing his boundaries. Believe me when I say a Fila's bratness is about 10X any other dog's bratness (and maybe 2 or 3X the bratness of a Cane Corso or Presa Canario, from what I've read). But I guess I just have to cross my fingers and hope nothing stupid happens.

If I were you Cristy, I would ask for their number and offer your services with him. That way, if he does get too much you are there to ensure he goes through the right channels. It is a very sad situation all around. Why was he adopted to these people if they are so inexperienced?

I'm crossing my fingers too. It's wonderful that you and Opie were able to meet each other at all, too.

Honestly, the reasons listed here for these people not being the right home don't seem substantial to me. Are they perfect? No, obviously not. But they aren't horrible, Opie was in the shelter for god knows how long, and a perfect family didn't come along. For a dog like Opie, maybe there isn't a perfect family.

You can't judge the people because they didn't come to the shelter that often. Maybe they didn't want to get that attached to him in case it didn't work out. Maybe the both work and wanted to spend the majority of there time with the dog they already own. Maybe they live kind of far and didn't have the extra money to spend on gas. Maybe only one of them drives, and it was hard for them to get out there. Who knows.

Also, almost NO ONE I know outside of Chaz, actually probably not one single person I know, even "dog people" would know that whale eye and lip licking are signs of discomfort. They will learn by living with him what his personal quirks and signs of discomfort are.

As far as them not hiring a trainer or working on the D/A with their past dogs...a ton of people wouldn't do that because if their dog isn't around other dogs a lot, it's not a big deal. Unless they wanted another dog in their home or wanted their dog to spend time around other dogs, most people would assume why would they spend the time and money solving an issue that rarely causes problems.

I'm going to be the optimistic one and say I think these people will learn about Opie as he learns about them and he will live out his days happily with a family that is HIS and a brother to frolic with.

I don't find any of that acceptable for a dog with a bite history. Period.

When it comes to a Fila, or even a mix thereof, you NEED TO KNOW these things before owning such a breed. They are not a breed you get to learn about owning dogs. You miss a sign that the dog is uncomfortable, it can cost you, big time. The last home Opie was in missed his signs, and the husband was bitten in the arm and taken to the ground. This is not a dog you adopt to inexperienced people!

As to why FOHA adopts dogs like this to inexperienced people, it comes down to, in part, that they treat all dogs the same. They just don't understand that a guardian breed is not a lab, and that these breeds need different things.