A few thoughts of my own regarding the breed:
Depending on your understanding and definition of human aggression, a German Shepherd Dog may not be for you. GSDs are absolutely an aggressive breed, but aggression typically carries a more negative connotation and has been portrayed as a negative breed trait more often than not. If you want a dog without an aggressive bone in his body, then I strongly recommend you steer clear of the breed.
Indifference is fine, dangerous behavior is not.
I have often seen dangerous behaviors come as a result of a poor management and understanding of the breed’s innate instincts and drives, so I think this could go either way. Is a Shepherd capable of exhibiting dangerous behaviors? Absolutely. Is it preventable or manageable in a mature, well bred dog of solid nerve? In my opinion, yes, though this will depend on the individual dog.
I want something not prone to the drama and hysterics and screaming and wimpyness that the GSD seems prone to.
It’s very interesting – and unfortunate – that this has been your experience with the breed. I can easily say that my own has been the very opposite, and I’ve met a wide range of German Shepherds from all types of breedings. I do not deny at all that the breed has many issues as a whole, but in person, all the German Shepherds I have met have been stable, self possessed, and enjoyable to be around.
I want something built in a way that it stays sound well into 10+ years. Obedience isnt so important as long as I can get some basics, loose lead walking, pay attention to me, any kind of recall at all (like in the freaking house or yard), and training for weightpulling. Im looking for the calmest most confident male puppy, the thinker, the one that isnt too fussed with anything, unflappable, curious, not dramatic or timid. Not physically calm like doesnt run or want to play, but personality calm. If a car backfires out front or I drop a pot on the floor, or I need to trim his nails, I dont want drama. That kind of calm.
Sounds like my German Shepherd and almost every other German Shepherd I have met. I will say that there are some that do not have loose leash walking down quite yet (including mine under certain circumstances), but that’s more a matter of training priority than anything else. Some lines are better for precision or flashy obedience, but all have been capable of obeying basic commands well and possess very biddable personalities and an eagerness to work.
At home, my dog is so absurdly calm that he’s boring. He’s hilarious when we’re out and going through a training or play session, though.
I find show line shepherds unbelievably ugly, even the german show lines. I want a dog with a functional ass end, not a hyena. Redchromes Judge is a good example of a GSD body style I find acceptable, but his "type" is hardcore working lines and thats too much dog for me. And too big, most likely.
There are much less offensive ways to voice that opinion, and I’m going to follow Monkeys’ example and try to respond a bit more diplomatically than I would have otherwise. If you’re going to make uneducated and broad blanket statements like this, please be more considerate in your wording. I am a working dog person through and through and have met showlines (German and American) with excellent work ethic and structure – dogs that I would be proud to own. And I know their handlers, owners, and breeders take great pride in these dogs as well and would NOT appreciate such a snide comment.
I've met showline dogs that weren't built extreme at all. You gotta keep in mind that when they stack the dogs for photos they look way more extreme than they usually are.
Excellent point, monkeys! I would be more than happy to provide examples of how the way a dog is stacked can affect the overall appearance to those not familiar with the breed, and/or assessing conformation and structure.
Looking at their website its easy to think ewww showline GSDs! But I was pleasantly surprised by the dog she produced that I met and played with. She's out of Carlee (West German showline) and the American showline male. While not nearly as extreme as a working line dog, she certainly wasn't lacking in drive and IMO would be plenty for someone looking to fart around with training.
http://www.animusgsd.com/contactus.html
I am such a fan of American/German showline crosses! My neighbor’s German Shepherd is a lovely, balanced, American x German showline dog of excellent conformation and temperament. There is also a breeder in Oregon who has stunning German/American dogs (in appearance, at the very least – I have not had the fortune to meet any in person yet).
http://www.fairwayshepherds.com/
I've met a few of Nancy's dog's too. They are pretty nice active dogs. I wouldn't go there if I say wanted to campaign and go to IPO nationals or something, but for an active pet owner dabbling in sports they are perfect. She's actually been kind enough to take the time to mentor me a bit over years despite showline GSD's not being my area of interest at all. She's kinda stopped being active in IPO because the club here has ridiculous infighting.
http://www.zederkamme.com/
There is a woman on the German Shepherd forum I frequent who has a Zeder Kamme dog. I hear the breeder is a lovely lady to talk to, and that she has gorgeous dogs. The woman on the forum’s pup will be a year soon and he is just gorgeous, although he has a possibly neurological medical issue affecting his back legs primarily. I forgot his breeding, but his temperament is just stellar and he is excelling in bitework.
A quick comment on vom Banach – I love the dogs and lines she breeds and works with, but you’ll have to be very, very clear about the type of dog you want and the type of dog you are willing to handle. She produces dogs of varying drives, thresholds, and temperaments and sometimes will match a dog that is too much for the owner/handler.
This goes for MANY other breeders, so this is also general advice for when someone’s talking to breeders and choosing between litters and kennels.
Honestly it sounds like a nice West German showline dog from a reputable breeder would probably suit you best. Though I know thats not what you want to hear LOL.
I actually had the same thought. A West German showline Shepherd sounds like a better fit than a working line German Shepherd at this point. A bit of a generalization, to be sure, but they do tend to work more naturally in prey/play and are overall more amiable and easier going. Not that they are easier to raise or are lower in drive, but I know more working lines to be confrontational (and often subtly so, which can be more difficult) than show lines.
Thanks Equinox! Also I should have listed Trent's breeder as a good WG working line one, doh! Love that pretty boy.
Thank you! I’m very happy with the dog I got from Ray, and feel so thrilled to have Trent as a part of my life each and every day. He is a great dog with the right personality for all the right moments, and just the drive and intuition I want in a dog.
Trent’s breeder actually has working lines and show lines at his kennel, I don’t think he is particular about type so long as the dog is a good working dog. I think currently he has a show line male standing stud at his kennel, and a show line bitch. I’ve been just as impressed with the show lines and show/working lines he breeds, as I have been with the working lines.