Breeding tiny dogs...

There is a girl on a chihuahua forum that I am on, and she wants to breed her 3lb chihuahua. The male that she bought for her is already the same size as her, and he is still a young puppy. I've tried to nicely explain that it is a really bad idea to breed a chihuahua under 4.5-5lbs, and that the male should be smaller than the female. She doesn't care, they are going to have "cute babies."

I just wanted to vent, since I see this a LOT on chihuahua forums. My breed seems to attract a ton of BYBs who do not care about breed standards or ethics. Gotta love it

I know how you feel. I really wish chihuahuas weren't as popular as they are sometimes. I really wish it was against the law for stupid people to own them too. But what can we do other than keep trying to educate. Try not to think about her too much...you'll only stress yourself out. Trust me, I know.

It is just so frustrating. I try to nicely explain that these dogs shouldn't be bred, and these people just write back snooty replies. These poor dogs

Taco Bell definitely ruined chihuahuas, along with Paris Hilton and other bimbo celebrities who have no regard to ethics.

Keep preaching !!! Yes, she may get a cute pup and a dead mommy , plus a $2000 vet bill !

or a dead mommy and a dead puppy and still a 2K vet bill.

She is still arguing with me about this... she said that if her byb and vet agree with breeding this dog, she will do it... ugh.

*shakes head* I'm just afraid of what the result will be if she breeds. . .

Here are some highlights from the conversation:

Her: "i was thinking about breeding her with domino when he comes of age. i havn't decided fully yet and i want to get her checked out by a vet in that area. so if i do decide you will definatly be the first to know."

Me: "They are both so cute! How much does Cocoa weigh?"

Her: "cocoa is 3 lbs and she is akc"

Me: "I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it isn't a good idea to breed a chihuahua under 4.5lbs. Chihuahuas are notorious for having c-sections because of their small size already. I personally wouldn't breed a chihuahua under 5lbs just to be safe (and even that can be scary!). Also, the male should be smaller than the female. In pictures, it looks like Domino is almost the same size as Cocoa, and he is still a young pup. I would really really recommend against breeding Cocoa. My Rylie weighs 3.5 lbs, and she is tiny. Originally her breeder was going to keep her to show/breed, but as she got older she continued to chart to weigh 3-3.5lbs, so she was sold to me. I could never imagine Rylie having puppies... she is a tiny girl."

Her: "I had a feeling you were going to say that when you asked that question. cocoa is 3 months away from her next heat. like i said before i wanted to get her checked out by a vet and everything and that i hadn't fully decided if i was or wasn't. i'm not just going to jump into something like that. i know that cocoa could die during birth thats why i am letting a vet decide weather its a good idea or not."

Me: "Any good chihuahua breeder would never recommend breeding a 3lb chihuahua. Most vets are not specialized in treating small dogs, and any vet that knew anything about the chihuahua breed would tell never to breed a 3lb chihuahua. Every bitch under 4lb that I have heard about getting pregnant has had to have a c-section. To me, this is not worth risking my chi's life. This is very serious, your bitch could die while whelping, especially if the stud used is larger than she is (even if he is smaller, he could throw larger puppies, which could get stuck in the birth canal). I'm sorry, I'm not trying to come off mean or rude, but I just don't think that you realize how dangerous to breed a dog this small."

Her: "if i didn't realize the dangers i would not consult my vet about it. I would not take cocoa to any vet as i have heard the dangers of vets giving too much vaccine to a small dog because thy do not have experience with it. My vet is not just a regular vet, he is a vet for toy breeds only and most of his clientel are chi's. i was lucky to find him so close to me. I am not only consulting my vet about it but i am also consulting the breeder i got cocoa from. i'm not going into this with out research. i am not one of those people who would put their dog in danger just because they want puppies. as i said before and i will say it for the the third time i am not fully decided if i am going to breed her. I did not ever say i had full intentions of breeding her. i said i wanted to find out if she as ok to breed. i am not seekig one opinon on this. i care too much about cocoa. if my vet said it was ok and beatysbabies said it was not i would take beatysbabies advice over my vets. "

Me: "No offense, but if you had done any research at all, you wouldn't even consider breeding your 3lb chihuahua. A vet who specializes in small dogs would NOT condone breeding a dog that small. A vet that only sees money would, though."

Her: "i havn't even talked to my vet about it yet and when i mentioned breeding cocoa the first time on this forum i emailed beatysbabies which i have not gotten a responce from yet. your acting like i already went to my vet and got his ok which i havn't so don't come down on him. your also acting like i am doing it right this second as i said before cocoas next heat is in 3 months. in that time i can decide if i'm going to or not i can also decide to get her spayed. 3 months is a long time off."

Me: "It doesn't matter if 3 months is far into the future or not... a 3lb dog should not be bred. I'm concerned for the safety and health of your dog... and I am not EVER going to agree with breeding a dog that small. It is a really bad idea. There is a HUGE chance of you losing your bitch and pups, and I would 99% guarantee the need for a c-section. If your vet does tell you to breed her, I would find a new vet. If your breeder tells you to breed her, then they are very irresponsible."

Ugh! My head is spinning!

That's horrible. I hate when people come looking for "advice" but already have their minds made up and are really just looking for acceptance from others that their decisions are legit.

It seems to me that she said that she was looking for advice, but then when you gave her advice, (the right advice), she lashed right away. I really hate people like that. I would keep trying to get through to her, but chances are her mind is made up about breeding her chi, (even though she says it is not), and you won't get through to her. We can only hope though hey. Good luck.

Thanks It is just so frustrating when you try to educate someone, and they do not listen. I feel so bad for her chi...

Sounds to me like she does not have her mind made up about anything. She is consulting a toy breed vet and is only thinking about it.

makes me mad.

there was a big cattle dog bred to a chi bitch in our street. but a big bitch at that. atleast one puppy survived because the dads family took it. sadly. the father died of parvo, no shots, no neutering. its not a nice place for a dog there. and he was an amazing looking dog.

now they have the chi/ACD and another cattle dog bitch with about 8 pups that follow her out onto the road as she snarls and snaps at people and dogs walking past. the owners just look on. big surprise

makes me mad.

there was a big cattle dog bred to a chi bitch in our street. but a big bitch at that. atleast one puppy survived because the dads family took it. sadly. the father died of parvo, no shots, no neutering. its not a nice place for a dog there. and he was an amazing looking dog.

now they have the chi/ACD and another cattle dog bitch with about 8 pups that follow her out onto the road as she snarls and snaps at people and dogs walking past. the owners just look on. big surprise

Jessie-
I have a whole house full of the cast off's from such irresponsible breedings...most of them with serious health issues...one thing that I have learned after all of my years in rescue is that you can't fix stupid...

I honestly don't get such vets. I can promise you that all 8 of our vets would be pushing that girl to get that dog spayed.

However, not all vets are worth a ****. For example, one vet I interviewed with for a tech job breeds at least 5 litters of Daschshunds a year. The parent dogs are all kept in kennels & not exactly treated well as they don't get much human interaction. Of course none of the parent dogs are shown, titled, health tested, etc. & he enjoys breeding for those "rare" merles & partis. Needless to say, I walked out when he showed me these dogs & I saw the sign up in the clinic.

The thing is, if this vet really did specialize in toy breeds, he would never condone breeding a 3lb chihuahua. Not only does she want to breed her 3lb chi, she wants to use a stud who is going to be at least 5lbs full grown. Ugh.

I can tell her first hand how many problems these tiny dogs go through. My tiny Chi came from an idiot breeder who bred for size. She was actually trying to get the smallest dogs that she could and was even going to breed Tinker (my dog) before we had her "operation" shut down. Tinker is under a pound and a half, she's recently undergone jaw reconstruction surgery completely due to her small size. Her mother died during her c-section to deliver her pups. There were 3 pups in total. One pup was still born and the only other pup died as well at about 3 months and he was just under 3 pounds.

People just make me crazy. Do what you can to educate her, that's all you CAN do..

Slightly OT, but I came across an article the other day about the official world's smallest dog in the Guinness Book of World Records. It's six inches long and full grown. INSANE.