Epi

Hey JR - excuse my ignorance but i don't understand your abbreviations? Could you explain what EPI and TLI are? MOstly because I am curious.

I know the California Natural cat food has worked wonder with my hedgehog - but their dog food I know next to nothing about. Sorry.

JR0579
I have a Shiloh Shepherd that has EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufiencency) and IBD (irritable bowel disease). I have never used the Viokase we were given Pancreazyme which I believe is the samething just different brands. When she was diagnosed her TLI test came back at 1.2 so she was low. The test was sent down to Texas. She was diagnosed at 11 months of age and she is now 3.
My suggestion to you is to call your vet and let them know what is going on.

They will be able to guide you if they feel you need to adjust your amounts . It does take sometime and trial and error to adjust the Enyzmes. Too much can cause the Runs and too little can too. I still adjust hers when needed. For her sometimes extra treats can cause her stools to be soft. I noticed when she does extra running her stools can be soft but we are also dealing with IBD too.

Also when did you switch foods? How long on the California Natural?

I wish you and Roy the best.
Also Yahoo has a good group for EPI. I learned alot just reading there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k9-EPIGLOBAL/

Trypsin-like immunoreactivity (TLI) test. The TLI test may help diagnosing acute pancreatitis in both cats and dogs. This test measures serum concentration of two enzymes, trypsinogen and trypsin and Bucket defined EPI ... so there you go.

Hi JR0579
Epi can be very Overwhelming. I was too when we were diagnosed. That site though is a good wealth of info. But as a newcomer to it you can go into overtime reading all the files.
Also each dog is different on the amount of Enzymes needed. The nice thing too is they bulk order Enzymes which are much cheaper. As you know its very expensive and depending upon the amount you need a bottle does not go very far.
There are also some that do better on just the Plant based Enzymes or a combo of both.

Its not a bad idea to also rule out bacteria problems too. Our girls have a habit of eating Rabbit droppings in the Yard. I call them trail mix.
I'm not familiar with the tests you mention. But they did culture her stool and ran blood tests. They found she also had SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth) http://www.mesavet.com/library/sibo.htm
which I was told is very common with EPI dogs. It was treated with a course of Antibiotics. That was right at the begining when we just got the TLI test results back. Since then she has been fine. I do give her a Probiotic to keep her Flora in balance which we got from the Holistic vet.

As for the food change over did you go slow by mixing the old with the new? For my girls I go slow. Seems both have sensitive stomach. Our EPI girl eats Raw and our other is eating the California Natural Chicken and Rice. We switched her from Canidae to the California Natural because I wanted one Protein source. I did not have any stool issues during the change. But every Dog is different. If you have food questions Mordy on this board is great which you probably already know.

Here are some links that I had saved when I was researching the EPI. They are easy reads maybe one will be of help.
http://www.gsdsrus.freeserve.co.uk/epistuff.html
http://www.wsgenetics.org/articles/epi.html
http://ellsbury.com/cheetahfaqs.htm


How are his stools doing? How much enzyme do you use in his meal?

Thanks for the info. Bucket. I use 1 teaspoon / meal as advised by the vet.
As for his stool, that's the confusing part. One time it's all firm, another time it's part firm part soft, almost watery. It's been like that before and after the enzyme. What's worrying me is that he is losing weight. He lost almost 1lb in 1 week and I have to force him to eat. What test did you for SIBO? My vet. tells me to find out about SIBO, it'll cost me a $1000.00 surgery

Thanks again

Hi
As far as I knew they ran Blood tests and they cultured her stool. I believe the blood test was checking for bacteria by checking her folate and cobalamin level. I'm not sure if the stool culture would how SIBO but it ruled out other bacterial problems. Here is a good site
http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/git-bo.htm#f
And here is another
http://www.shilohgtf.com/S.I. Bacterial Overgrowth Syndrome.htm



There was talk about doing the endoscopy so they could get some tissue,fluid and to look around but we decided against it. When she was Spay she had a reaction to the Anesthesia even though we did Prelim blood work. One month after that whole ordeal she was diagnosed with EPI. Here whole system went Haywire. We also follow a different protocol for Vacinations now too.

I hope I'm nt flooding you with too much. But i found going into the Vet with Info you found on your own does Help. EPI from what I found here in our area is not a common problem Vets treat. They had to order the Enzymes for us and initially I asked for them to run the TLI test on her. They thought I was a nut because she was so young and did not fit the book definition of it occuring in dogs of 4years of age. She was young 11 months. If your open to the idea I would also maybe see a Holistic Vet in your area. We use both Conventional and Holistic. It has helped her out alot with additional support for her Pancreas and intestinal tract. Diet and nutrition some herbs, along with a Vaccine protocal. Please dont think I'm pushing you into anything but I'm just sharing what we have found to work for her and I'm glad we did. I got very concerned about all the Antibiotics she took to rid her of the Bacteria. It was depleting her supply of the good bacteria.

Hope I have been of some help. Feel free to PM me if need be. I have been where you are and its very Overwhelming.

Have you tried feeding 3 times a day instead of 2?

Yes Barb. I switched to 3 times instead of 2 about 4 days ago. I don't know why I have a gut feeling that it's not EPI but something that has to do with Coccidia and Clostridium infections that he had a while back. I am not a vet., so it's just a gut feeling. Anyway, I'll wait for the fecal test results to come back on Wednesday..

I only know that it seems he's following in Dante's pawsteps. I'm no vet though!!

I was reminded again today how nice it is to have solid poops from Dante when he decided he had to poop while we were out for a walk!!

I hope you get some answers on Wednesday!!