Breeding for Size and Mass(Rottweilers)

Well, their guarantees etc are good on dysplasia, but they only offer to exchange the pup, not to help with surgeries... and who would exchange their dog because of dysplasia anyway? And look at the whelping dates, they seem to have one litter every week or something - NOT good. You want two litters a year or so, so they have time to socialize the puppies as they should. Also, two breeds is usually not a good sign, it doesn't give enough time to really focus on a breed and breed to better the breed. Also no mention of spay/neuter contracts... nor of temperament testing... And they don't list their females...

You'll find lots of different opinions about breeding for showing and for pet quality... The problem is that often other breeders will not offer the same stuff for half the price. You won't get the same guatantees, and lots of them don't test hips, eyes and temperament - and you REALLY want a dog with parents tested for those. And be extra careful with breeders that have too many litters, it means the pups won't get the socialization they need before they are sold.

That's what bothers me too, Fran. I know what goes into 8-9 weeks of socialization !!

What the hell are you talking about. Where did i get upset about AKC and SHOW. I was just trying to explain what i was saying better. What i said to lizzie was about the size. Because the way everyone was responding, made it sound like thats what i wanted, was a huge dog. And thats not it. But thanks for speaking for lizzie.
Right, but as i was trying to say, i cant find a breeder who offers them. (Open for suggestions) Every breeder i have found, only advertises the Show quality dogs.


Thats exzactly what i wanted to know..




Yeah why do you keep saying AKC bullshit...

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Im not looking for a cheap puppy. I found one breeder who wasnt selling puppies as show puppies but did offer alot of things i was looking for..however, he was far away. So again, thats why i asked...
I think maybe you need to READ what i said. And price is not the issue, paying extra for a dog that i dont care about showing, bothers me.

The breeder Mordy listed might have had some negative points with regard to help with surgery, but how many breeders do that? Did Redyre do that with her dogs? Did Grammy? Any of the other people who are breeders here do that? Or is a guarantee enough? How far do you expect a breeder to go for every pup they produce. I mean, I wouldn't give away my dog if he got HD but if it got so bad he couldn't move, and I couldn't afford the surgery, I wouldn't expect the breeder to pay for it. I don't know a lot about evaluating breeders but they do seem to have some good points- Their bitches are only bred 2 times and then retires. All of them seem to be titled in some way. I saw several IPO and Sch titles on both males and females, so at least they can pass basic working qualifications. Those titles have a temprament test as part of the certification, so they ARE doing a temprament test.

As far as the extensive medical tests, I guess you'd have to ask what they do- maybe they perform all the required tests but don't have it listed on the web. This kennel is producing dogs with workability in their lines, who are also capable of conformation. Their guarantee even states if you purchase a show dog and it doesn't finish by a certain age they will replace it. Is that a common thing for breeders to do?

This might not be the best place to get a Rottie from, but it is by far not the worst. For a pet quality dog like the OP is looking for I wouldn't discount this kennel. The breeder we got Gunnar from had many of the same traits as this one but on a smaller scale, and we got a great dog from good lines. Will he have HD in 5 years? Hopefully not but who knows. If he does, we'll get through it.

Not everyone needs to have a pup from a kennel who follows every single point to the T in order to be the type of model breeder capable of passing muster among a lot of the people here. How many people who are making comments about what the OP should be looking for have actually purchased a dog from a breeder who has done EVERY single thing by the book in order to further the breed they purchased? Has everyone who has a purebred dog made sure that every possible genetic defect was tested for, that every sire and dam was titled and temprament tested and was the best possible representative of the breed?

I dont offer to pay for the surgery, but the option is full price of the puppy back, upon OFA's reading of the x-rays. And if I have any question, I can have MY vet do x-rays to send in to OFA.

I don't expect to see any puppies coming down w/ HD, thats why I test my dogs hips and elbows, but it could always happen.

First off-

Chill out with the swearing. It doesn't make your point easier to understand (in fact, I'm pretty sure it was your use of expletives that confused me in the first place), nor does it make you sound any more intelligent. This is really not something to freak out about- just trying to help.

I believe I may have gotten this impression along the lines of you saying "AKC B.S." for the 2nd time, along with something to the effect of "I don't give a **** about show dogs."

And are you serious? You can't find a reputable breeder that offers pet-quality puppies?
I have NO clue where you're looking, but any place that attempts to tell you ALL of their dogs are show quality is pulling your leg. Now people may not necessarily advertise them explicitly, but they're there. Try looking at breeder referral on the Rottweiler Club of America's website.

Or go to a dog show in your area (I'm sure you REALLY wanted to hear that) but this is where the GOOD breeders are hanging out. Most people would only be too happy to talk to you about a pet quality puppy (Provided you don't swear at them, or tell them what they're doing is B.S. ). When I bought my PET puppy (NOT a show dog), this is where I found my breeder. Even though I WASN'T interested in showing.

I'm assuming you've got to have a dog show or two *somewhere* in your vicinity. Many great breeders don't advertise- they simply don't need to. It's all about word of mouth.

You do realize the same amount of time, love, socialization, food, medical care, etc. go into EACH puppy in a litter? Regardless of whether or not it's show quality. For this reason, many breeders who show their dogs have no price difference between show prospects and pet puppies.

Not to mention, at 8 weeks of age, you have NO idea how that puppy is going to turn out. My foster, Candy, is a prime example -- I saw her every day from 8 weeks to five months. Her owner who has been in the breed for 15years was sure she was going to be stupendous; just spectacular. When her temperment didn't turn out, she was placed in a pet home and then returned 4 months later. She is undersize, has NO bone, her headplanes are incredibly unparallel, she has a roman nose, splayed paws, she's easty-westy, and her body is completely out of proportion. Can you imagine if her owner had paid a few hundred dollars more for that? Alot of breeders won't give you back the difference --- they require an exchange for a new "show" puppy. When you are a breeder and have limited kennel space, what choice do you have. That's why I'm not going to be charging higher prices for show puppies. At 8 weeks it's just too hard to know what you're going to get.

So I really wouldn't worry about paying the same amount for a pet quality puppy. Look at it this way -- maybe the pet puppy isn't as much as the show puppy -- the show puppy might as a much as the pet puppy, so really you're getting a good deal. But seriously, whether or not all of the puppies in the litter can be shown, not all of them will go to show homes. There just aren't enough show homes out there to make it feasible. A show breeder will not have any inhibitions about placing a puppy with you as long as you are a responsible owner. Alot of breeders will charge the same amount as a show pup and then send you back some money when they recieve proof that your puppy has been spayed.

What's wrong with Kimbertal?

They are a commercial breeding operation and do not care about betterment of the breed in health and temperament, just about pumping out puppies for $$$. They pride themselves on "selling hundreds of dogs a year".

They knowingly breed dogs with poor temperaments with total disregard.

Yeah, they have a guarantee that they will take any dog back if there are problems with temperament, but that doesn't mean they breed to improve temperament, they just take the rejects back and pawn them off to the next unsuspecting person who happens to be looking for a dog.

They will not replace returned dogs that have been spayed or neutered, because they can't breed them for a profit anymore or pawn them out for their breeding program.

They knowingly breed dogs that do not fall within the breed standard.

Their way of doing business is a "no-cost breeding agreement" - people can obtain a female puppy which will be free under the condition they breed her twice and deliver the resulting puppies to the kennel at 7 weeks old.

The grounds may look nice, but it's just another Pennsylvanian puppy mill.

I myself am fairly new to knowing the Difference between a "Show quality" puppy and a "Pet quality" puppy.

Since coming here and reading and taking in what people are saying it has taught me this...........

In the future if i were to purchase another dog i would rather pay the extra and get a "Show quality" puppy.
I wouldn't however show him/her b/c it doesn't interest me to do so.

The reason i would do this is b/c you are pretty much gauranteed that you 're getting what your paying for.
I wouldn't want to pay ££££'s for a dog and then have him/her suffer with HD or other genetic issues that could turn out to not only cost me more than double what i would of saved at the sale, but also having a puppy suffering too.

ETS: If your really not interested in the AKC/Showing side of things...........why don't you find a Rottie organisation and adopt?

not to mention there dogs look like mastiffs!, just look at the dog at the top of there homepage

and if all he wants is a healthy dog and cant afford one from a responsible breeder,

why dont u just go to a shelter, theres plenty of cheap, healthy rotts there

I can afford one from a responsibile breeder. Thats not the point.

First off buddy, this is the internet. How do you know im freaking out? You cant see me or hear the one of my voice. It just gets frustrating trying to explain the same thing over again. Once again, you said

Like i have a problem with shows or something and thats not it at all.
1. We really dont have shows in our area. Welcome to Western NY. We have cattle shows not dog shows.

2. I can find plenty of breeders, however, half of them are family's selling puppies from the parents they own in there back yard or worse. NY doesnt have alot of Rottie Breeders. As i said, If you would READ, I did find a breeder that seemed to have all his **** together. X rays, AKC BULLSHIT, some certs and a garantee. But hes from far away, and i wondered what you all thought about getting a puppy based on pictures and the kennels website.

Also, the reason i say AKC Bullshit, is not because im saying that the AKC is worthless, i just mean like all that stuff that goes along with it. Its not a negative thing.

As for your last quote, that may be true sometimes, but not all the time. I see way to many breeders who charge and arm and a leg for a pup simply because its parents have won so many awards and all that.

Some of you are just taking it all the wrong way.

1. I dont want a huge dog. I mean i wouldnt mind having it, but its not what im looking for.
2. HOW DOES EVERYONE FEEL ABOUT BUYING PUPPIES FROM BREEDERS ONLINE. Sence that still hasnt really been answered.
3. I want a healthy dog(so yes something that has had all the tests done and all that jazz).
4.I like show dogs, i have nothing against them, I just simply do not care if its parents were show dogs as i wont be showing. However, If the only people who take care of there dogs, are show breeders than so be it.
Its simple enough to say that.

Rottie pups

The local no-kill shelter I volunteer at has 2 rottie pups for adoption who are around $150 each---however I'm not sure if they are still available (they were last weekend) and I am in Indiana...

There definitely are places you can get a rottie or rottie mix at a low price and you can be saving a life! I just looked on petfinder.com and found many rotties/rottie mixes in NY area for adoption.

2 - My issue with getting puppies from breeders online is that you have to be really sure that you can trust them. It goes both ways though, good breeders will probably not accept to ship puppies... Good breeders want to make sure the pups go to good homes. Any breeder that won't ask for a lot of references in these circumstances don't care about their dogs, and unfortunately it means they probably didn't care about socializing them enough too. But if you're totally sure that they are good breeders, you might want to ask them anyway.

4 - show quality breeders vs pet quality breeders always causes huge debates Be wary of breeders that breed for show and claim not to have any pet quality puppies anyway, it means they are willing to show any puppy, no matter if they would actually do well or not. Good breeders will have pet quality puppies that they will sell for cheaper than their show quality - that's what you need to look for. They will often be more reasonable than breeders who breed to make money (which is really what pet quality breeding is).

Other than that, I disagree wityh DanL... I would never advise anyone to get a puppy from a place that breeds so much pups they don't have enough time to properly socialize them. About the guarantee, I guess I just fail to see the point of asking for the pup to be returned if you want your money back if the dog develops HD... because really, few owners would do that. Heck even the puppy mill I got Boris from will pay you back the price of the dog if the dogs develop HD... and they won't ask for the dogs back.

Last point, there are a lot of rotties in rescues indeed. You might want to check there, but do it knowingly, as those dogs will probably not be from the best breeders temperament and testing-wise. Doesn't mean they are not great dogs though.

Fran-Thanks alot, Great Info.


Girlbuffalo1- I am not looking to adopt. How does that solve any of the problems i am having with finding a breeder? I rescued my Bulldog mix that i have now, and let me tell you, he was a handful. I plan on rescuing again, but i want the rottie to be Purebred and from a breeder who knows what they are doing. And once again, its not about the price.


Can you guys let me knkow what you think about these breeders?

http://www.rosebaker.com

http://www.cornucopia-rottweilers.com

They look ok, but hard to tell as they are not putting their contract online.

They send you to another breeder also, http://www.v1rottweiler.com/puppies1.htm . They look pretty good also...

My issues with both is that there is no mention of CERF testing, nor temperament testing, but they say they breed for temperament, so I guess that's something (frankly I don't know how they can test temperament anyway).

Anyway, I would contact Redyre and ask her, she will be able to help you I'm sure.

The first breeder looks good, the second one doesn't have enough information to tell really.

Keep in mind that the first breeder is a working breeder. Strictly working rottie lines tend to be alot different than lines for show or both working/show. These dogs are high drive, powerful, and have a much larger tendency to be aggressive, destructive, etc. They typically need more exercise and stimulation and alot more training. These are working dogs -- if they don't have a job, they will find one, and it won't be something good. Not saying working lines are bad at all, they just require alot more than the typical "family pet" and you have to be prepared for it.

That said, I don't mind having a pup shipped to me at all. It's best to talk to others who have met the breeder though, as websites and pictures can be decieving. I've met WAAAY to many breeders whose websites are lovely and show off an amazing, healthy, sound breeding program, only after meeting them I've realised this was not true.

You can contact this breeder and I am sure she can give you any info you need on finding a Rottweiler in your area, or even out of area.
http://redyrerottweilers.bravehost.com/index.html


Here is an excellent breeder that may be able to point you in the right direction as well.
http://www.esmondrott.com/


And one more, she has a litter now but I am not sure if all are spoken for as of yet.
http://phoenixrottweilers.com/Rottweilers.html


Just a note. The breeders listed above have a great love of the breed. If they do not currently have a litter available I am sure they will be more than happy to point you in the right direction. A breeder that truly cares for their chosen breed enjoys educating others and helping them find the right dog rather than resort to looking in the newspaper or just random websites.

Sadly there have been cases where OFA, CERF, or other documents are being "made" by breeders with false information. That is one of the reasons it is important to get involved with a Rottweiler club in your area. You get to know who is who. Also, there are plenty of good Code of Ethics breeders in you area, within a days drive at the most.

One more thing. The first link I posted is for RedyreRottweilers. She does all health testing and shows before breeding. She has mentioned before her dogs will be sold for about $800. So, you don't have to spend $2000 to get a dog from a ethical breeder.

^^Thanks, i actually got her website yesterday from someone, i just keep forgeting to check it out from home..

Fran-I picked them because A. there both in NY and B. On pets4you.com it says

Rosebaker.com-Health and hips guaranteed. USRC and AKC registered

cornucopia.com- OFA Excellent. Reserve early. Code of Ethics Breeder. AKC, OFA.

So i thought they sounded like a good place. I figured, i would check with you guys, and of course, i would read the contract before hand. I think i will e-mail them both tonight and post up the contracts and whatever else they tell me.